Meghan Houle (00:01.414)
Kari, hello and welcome to the Pivot With Purpose podcast. How are you my friend? Yeah. Oh my gosh, no, thank you for joining and taking the time. I know hashtag like booked and busy. We got a lot of stuff going on and you're managing a lot of things and I'm so excited to like dive into your background and it's just really great to know another.
Kari Saitowitz (00:07.186)
I'm doing great, thank you for having me.
Meghan Houle (00:25.85)
badass female entrepreneur and marketer, amazing career story, but also in love with fitness and community, because it's literally my DNA, Carrie. So it is my pleasure. Yes. Well, before we dive in, I always love to talk about the here and now of what's lighting you up, what's going on in your world. So what are you up to, and what's getting you really excited these days as we plow through the
Kari Saitowitz (00:35.95)
I love it, so much to talk about.
Meghan Houle (00:55.71)
start and beginning of 2024. It's crazy, right? Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (00:59.05)
Yes, well, New Year energy is always a good thing in fitness. I know people have a lot of feelings about resolutions, but I think any opportunity to do some self-reflection, think about some changes we wanna make, come up with some priorities for the coming year, personally, but also professionally, and kind of like start with a clean slate is really great all around. So I think it's just a super exciting.
time of year to restart. I know for myself, you know, thinking about personally some things I want to make time for and accomplish over the coming year, thinking about professionally what the goals are for the organization, but also for team members and people around me and helping other people achieve their goals over the coming year. It's a great time of year, I think.
Meghan Houle (01:49.538)
It is, yeah. Do you have any new year rituals? I don't love resolutions. Like I just think that word, you're almost like set up to fail because there's so much in a resolve of like, I'm gonna commit to make this change. That feels heavy, right? And you see it in fitness, like you were just saying, I think you're like, I'm gonna go to the gym more. But if it's not a habit or a shift in your mindset schedule routine,
some of those things like any like fad diet or fad situation, it's always like short lived, right? So beyond fitness, like what are some fun rituals or habits that you love to do that set you off for the new year? I did a vision board party I can like show you after. It's really cute. Ha ha ha.
Kari Saitowitz (02:28.382)
You did. I love it. So I think, you know, one thing for me, it's all about accountability with anything. And so, you know, I sat back over the break, took, you know, took a vacation, was reading a book about outdoor adventure and opening your mind and sort of how taking on adventures and becoming uncomfortable and challenging yourself has all these amazing carryover effects to everything else we do, but also putting things
into perspective. So I happen to be on a boat reading this book overlooking the ocean. And it makes you realize like any one decision we make in our lives, they feel so monumental to us. But in reality, like we're just these little tiny beings in the world and whether we have the biggest job in the world at a huge organization or we're doing something for our own personal fulfillment.
It's kind of all small in the grand scheme of things. And so for me, I kind of like sat back and I told a handful of people very close to me around me a few things that I wanted to really hold myself just accountable for this year. And most of it honestly had to do with making time for certain priorities in my personal life. And I will always get my work done because that is who I am and how I'm wired. And I will always be there for my team and my organization.
taking the extra long weekend or saying yes to a commitment that might seem kind of crazy and impulsive, but it's just gonna be a great life experience. And having that trust and faith that the parenting will still get done, team management will still get done, the to-do list will still get done. But like allowing myself the freedom and flexibility to say yes more.
Meghan Houle (04:24.278)
Yeah, oh, I love that. Right, oh my.
Kari Saitowitz (04:26.142)
say no more by the way because in order to say yes you have to say no and that is something I have been terrible at traditionally speaking but I think telling a few people who will actually hold me accountable to it around me was a big
Meghan Houle (04:34.362)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (04:41.891)
Yeah.
Well, and I think it's just all boundaries that come into play. And maybe people are like exhausted about that word, but we said boundaries a couple of years ago, and then we're like after the pandemic, and then we're like back into like the crazy life. And I think there was probably a moment of time in the past couple of years where we all fell into almost like a scarcity mindset, right? Of like, oh God, there's not gonna be enough, or is this gonna happen again? Yes, I better do this. Or like, not wanting to fall back
Where you know, we all truly went something went through something we couldn't control but we could control our actions So now I don't know if you agree. I feel like this year there is this common theme of just like Mindfulness right like being very aware and also take you know what we are committing to Whether it scares the hell out of us, right? Because on the other side of that fear it could be massive success or that big goal that we're used to or looking for Or taking like actionable alignment
Right? So you are doing something every day that truly aligns with your goal, like whatever that big juicy goal is, right? And I love to say it out loud, like tell people, but not everybody, right? Not everybody. People you trust, but that's so great. And
Kari Saitowitz (05:54.43)
Yes, you kind of have to. That's all right.
Meghan Houle (06:02.882)
I'm looking forward to big things to come. And can't wait to dive into all your pivots and looking through your background and just being connected over the past couple of months. Wow, certainly I've worked for some amazing brands. I love the marketing space, Carrie. I feel like building my own brands for the past few years, like you really appreciate personal, I mean, I think it's a thing now of like personal branding. Like we are all little mini brands within ourselves, right? So,
Kari Saitowitz (06:29.774)
Absolutely.
Meghan Houle (06:32.918)
I don't take that lightly and I know it's telling stories and setting the brand pillars and what you wanna be known for and ethics and values and missions and all of that. So where did the marketing buzz catch you early on? Are you doing today what you thought you were gonna be doing early on in your career? Tell us a little bit of high level sort of journey to the marketing world. Yes, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (06:58.702)
Sure, I would say the marketing buzz did bite me pretty early on. I did take an advertising class even as far back as high school, but it bit me in an interesting way. So, a long story short, I both loved art, but also was really good at math and very analytical subjects. So in one of my schools, I won an art award and in another school, I won a math award.
At first, I kind of went down the path of architecture for a very brief moment, thinking about like engineering and physics, but also design and creative ideas. And then I had this moment of, oh gosh, what if I like ran out of really good ideas and I couldn't design stuff anymore? This was all while being like barely formed in high school. And I took an advertising class and I absolutely loved that because it felt.
artistic but also you had to be strategic and there was you know sort of like a lot of I Don't know I guess like a lot of brain work combined with you know, the actual creative so I thought that was really interesting and it kind of set me on a path of applying to different communications programs and business schools when I Decided to you know when I was looking at colleges and kind of like in this world of marketing slash advertising
I interned at an ad agency. I thought it was super fun. I loved it. I loved being surrounded by creative people, but also there was a ton of analysis and research that goes into all of the deliverables. And I came out of school and ended up working for a very big brand, but in a very strategic and analytical role in a strategic planning and business development group.
which quite frankly came down to a financial necessity. So the job offers from the ad agencies were literally 50% of the salary of this other job offer, which was more of like a strategic consulting role. And I had school loans to pay back and I wanted to live and work in New York City, which as we all know is a very expensive place to live.
Kari Saitowitz (09:15.542)
And so I basically just took the opportunity in front of me that was going to pay my bills and get me started. And after a few years in this role, which I absolutely loved, I was at American Express, I just, I was sort of experiencing FOMO before the term FOMO existed because there was this global advertising group within the company and they were doing all the work that I thought was just like,
really the most engaging and exciting to me, understanding consumer behaviors and figuring out how to put the business priorities into these really entertaining and engaging campaigns. And they had awesome taglines at the time, like everybody knew, don't leave home without it. However, to work in that group, you needed like over a decade of advertising agency experience, which I did not have. So.
I ended up just kind of taking stock and looking around at other options. At that point in time, to be a brand manager for like packaged goods companies, you had to have an MBA. There weren't a lot of really big sort of like traditional marketing jobs that were hiring undergraduates.
So I ended up going back to business school and made myself the promise that I was going to go work for a consumer brand in a marketing role. I wasn't going to work in a marketing role for a non-marketing company. I wanted to be sort of the epicenter, not a support function. So I went to go work for Pepsi in between my first and second years of business school and went back there after I finished business school and worked in the marketing department until I left when I had my older son, who's now 16 years old.
Meghan Houle (11:00.62)
Ah, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (11:00.758)
We're going back in time quite a ways, but absolutely loved that experience. I was surrounded every day by the most brilliant minds in business, in marketing, in advertising and entertainment. People, you know, there were, you know, people who had really strategic and almost like financial backgrounds, you know, in my, in my group. But then there were also people who came from agencies or had like super creative backgrounds.
were people who came from the world of entertainment and obviously got to work with, you know, a ton of different agencies of all different kinds and worked on small brands and big brands and music projects and television shows and live events. And it was just, it was awesome in every way. And just, I think, helped turn me into a well-rounded marketer. I had exposure to, you know,
ton of different ways to go to market, you know, when you go to market with a new small brand It's totally different than going to market with you know, a huge global brand and your budgets are different and your tactics are different and your Your tools are different. So that was just probably the most awesome education and Network building experience I could have had
So, yeah, so the marketing bug bit me pretty early on. It was a way to really combine, a lot of different parts of my brain and my passions together. And I would say ultimately consumer behavior is probably, for me, like the epicenter of my marketing world. So just studying how people are behaving, why are they making the decisions that they're making? How do you become
Meghan Houle (12:42.853)
Right.
Kari Saitowitz (12:52.15)
you know, a meaningful part of somebody's world, creating experiences. So, for me, like that's the part of marketing that I absolutely love.
Meghan Houle (13:01.502)
Yeah, because it's like, ooh, what gets that client saying yes to this product, right? Over all the choices. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (13:06.166)
Yes. And just making some, yes. And like you're ultimately enhancing somebody's life in some way, you know, if they're making that decision, like there's some positive experience that's happening and being delivered.
Meghan Houle (13:22.934)
Yeah. Oh my god. So Godwin, what an icon. I mean, two brands with American Express and then Pepsi. Oh my gosh. I remember, too. And I think you were working even back in the day, too, where it was just Pepsi versus Coke and all of that rivals. And also, I'm sure, some really amazing campaigns. Did you work on the Brittany Pepsi Super Bowl? Oh my god.
Kari Saitowitz (13:46.946)
I came in just after Brittany. I got to work with Beyonce and Kanye West in his healthier time.
Meghan Houle (13:49.966)
So iconic. I mean, just little Beyonce.
So, Beyonce's on my vision board and we share a birthday. Yes. So, basically I'm Beyonce. But no, that's so, so cool. What was one of your favorite projects before you moved through your big pivot with Pepsi or like what's your most like iconic memory early on in your career?
Kari Saitowitz (14:08.726)
Oh gosh, best project was I was working for a manager who is a brilliant, brilliant marketer and he came up with this idea of essentially pulling together Pepsi's traditional advertising dollars on a television network and rather than buying a whole bunch of like 30 second or 60 second ads that would take place in between television shows, if you can remember those days.
Meghan Houle (14:35.378)
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (14:36.102)
instead to pull that together and have an actual television program. And so he secured a partnership with Sony Music and together Pepsi and Sony Music launched a television show on the WB network called Pepsi Smash. And we became the Pepsi Music Group. And basically, Sony would provide the music artists every week, there would be one platinum artist, so a major name, but it would also be a platform.
for their new artists for exposure. And it was Pepsi's Media Dollars and Sony's Music Artists. And we flew out to LA and basically figured out how to create and produce and host and market an entire television show. And then stemming out of that, I was just a couple of years out of school at the time.
I was leading live events, so created a platform called Pepsi Smash Live or Pepsi Live, I think it later became, and flying consumers. We would have these consumer winners from all over the country flying into these concerts, you know, and just taking care of every detail, you know, end to end of the events from event production to the marketing to the promotional layers.
other partners, but really just creating meaningful experiences for consumers. So it wasn't really about the product itself. It was about the product as a vehicle to have these like elevated, incredible and meaningful experiences. So that was, you know, probably the best project.
Meghan Houle (16:11.558)
So fun. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And you seem very much in that window of time with Pepsi very much as I was coming up in my career doing all the things where team hashtag no sleep, but that's okay because we were doing it girl. We were, we were doing it. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (16:23.975)
Yes!
Who needed sleep? You had caffeine and you had music. Who needed sleep?
Meghan Houle (16:31.062)
Yeah, Pepsi Pepsi, like cherry pepsi, you know, all the things like dang. No, I love it. Well, so what was that big pivot? So, you know, I know there's a moment there where maybe there was a decision to leave Pepsi. And then I know you went on this like amazing fitness journey, obviously to lead you where you are today with New York Sports Club, and also the fitting room and all of that. So like, tell us like, what was that pivotal moment where you knew, okay, time for me to move on. And then like, how did you get
wrapped into like fitness and like this community and now doing all the things that you are today. Yes. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (17:06.698)
Yeah, so I left Pepsi when I had my first son. So that was, talk about like turning inward and doing soul searching. You know, I had an incredible career. I had, you know, several promotions. I had just made it to the executive level. I absolutely loved everything about what I did. My husband,
one point he had left his job and started a company of his own and he used to say like, don't you want to like start your own company? And we had met at business school. I was like, No, I don't like I have no desire. I love working for big companies and big brands. And as a marketer, having resources and tools and teams and agencies like I thought that was sort of like the pinnacle of, you know, of all my hopes and dreams, you know, and I loved it. And so
I really ironically had no desire to start my own company, but I did know deep inside, I knew that I had no ability to not work 110% or maybe like 150%. And I was never going to leave emails on read and I wasn't going to not attend meetings. I was out of my house for probably like
13 hours a day on average, maybe 14 hours a day on average. And so, you know, about to bring a child into the world, it was like a real moment for myself. You know, I knew that part-time probably wasn't realistic for me because I wouldn't actually work part-time, even if I said I was part-time. I also just looked around and like the best and most exciting projects, obviously,
go to the people who are all in. And I didn't really have a desire to work on like the smaller, less exciting, not fast moving projects. And so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna throw myself into my next all in experience and that's motherhood. So I'm just gonna be this all in mother and I'm going to stay home and.
Kari Saitowitz (19:21.45)
you know, raise my child and go do all the things and the mommy and me classes and the play groups and all of that. And I did for a short period of time. And I have two boys that are exactly two years apart. But I think by the time my second son was born, I was like, wow, like I'm really not happy.
And that was also really challenging. I mean, it was hard to step away from work, but you're so busy as a new parent. Like I didn't really have time to reflect. But being home, I was full of all sorts of emotions because I felt like I had the ability to be with my kids all the time and do everything that should be just like I should be so appreciative of that.
and throw myself into trying to make them the best humans they could be. But I myself was not feeling like my best self. So there are people who are just so fueled with that and love it and they're making up games and they're on the floor and they're playing. And I was like, wow, I'm not even good at this because I'm constantly, I don't know, distracted. I'm reading articles about things. I'm just, it wasn't great.
So I had a personal trainer that I was seeing twice a week. And I mean, it was essentially the only time I was really like fully separating and he was getting his MBA at the time. So we used to spend a lot of time talking about his business school cases, which was really great for my own kind of like brain and separation from, you know, nap time and schedules and things like that.
And as we, you know, we would talk about his business school cases, we couldn't help, but also just talk about things in the fitness world and the fitness industry. You know, there we were in a gym working out. And I thought it was just really interesting. This consumer behavior that I was observing in the fitness space at the time, which was essentially, um, boutiques had just started opening in New York city. So there were only a couple and I thought it was very interesting that
Meghan Houle (21:30.564)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (21:36.43)
many of his personal training clients were also taking classes at fitness studios. And I was like, well, I don't really understand if they come to you and this is their workout, like what are they doing there? And you know, so he was kind of like, you know, I don't know, they say it's fun. And you know, it's obviously a more accessible price point than a personal trading session. So it could do it more frequently. I was like, okay, I was
Meghan Houle (21:56.591)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (22:05.998)
So if it's fun and it's, you know, a more accessible price point, then why do they still come to you? So you know, I started having, I essentially started like hosting these little like roundtables of, you know, of sort of like moms who I knew from school drop off and you know, his other clients and started to like just dig into this whole thing that was happening in fitness. And it was sort of like, well, like that's my real workout.
Meghan Houle (22:22.587)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (22:34.878)
So it's my strength, it's my cardio, it's where I'm learning new skills, it's where I'm progressing, it's where I know I'm doing things correctly and I'm not getting hurt. And my classes are sort of like fun and it's where I'm hanging out with my friends and I'm socializing and I'm also burning calories, getting stronger so I'm happy. But like, and nobody wanted to give up either of the two things. And then there was me who was like, well, I only have helped like two days a week and I really.
love my workouts with my personal trainer, but also like, I'm kind of jealous of the whole fun thing. So I started, you know, I started to essentially just speak to my trainer who was also in business school and studying business of all kinds with like, do you think we could take a workout like you do with a personal trainer with real loaded strength training and weights where you have to be doing things correctly and moving correctly?
but can you put it into a group environment? Like, do you think it would work? Is there a way to like do both things? And that conversation continued for about a year, at which point my husband turned around and said, oh my God, this is so much better. Like, you know, this is so much more fun to talk to you about this than sort of like what, you know, how many minutes, you know, our kids were napping for or not napping for or whatever. And he kind of just looked at me one day and he was like, you should just do this.
Meghan Houle (23:52.898)
Right. Ha ha ha. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (24:01.162)
which seemed crazy until I told someone. So as we talked about earlier in this conversation, accountability and putting it out there to the world, it kind of just started to snowball. And then I became an accidental entrepreneur.
Meghan Houle (24:07.962)
Say it out loud. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Awesome. Yeah.
And there it is. Yeah, so and I, you know, kind of looking back on your timeline dates, yeah, I think it was right around, what, like 2012, where I go back and I equate years with like certain milestones. So I remember 2013 is when I got married. And here in Boston, we are not as cool as New York, but we're cool, not as cool. But our boutique fitness was a little slower to go, let's say that.
Kari Saitowitz (24:44.898)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (24:46.154)
So you know, you have the equinoxes and all the things of the world where you would go. And I never did personal training care because you're right, it was so expensive. And I do personal training. I love my trainers. But there is an element of group fitness where it's like, and now when I train, I train with someone else because I'm like, don't look at me. I'm like, I don't want the attention. Like, it's kind of nice to be distracted when you're like back squatting, God knows how much weight and you're like, you want to die. But, you know, I think I remember.
Kari Saitowitz (25:02.812)
Bye!
Meghan Houle (25:12.246)
when Barry's like first came to Boston, that was 2013, because I'm like, dang, you know, of course in September, I got married in April, so there wasn't shedding for the wedding, so to speak, I'm just kidding, we don't need to shed for the wedding, but, but still just like Barry's was something that stood out to me of like, oh my gosh, like this like brand with cool lights and all of the experience, like, you know, you kind of get behind it. And then from there, oh man, I mean, did we really start to see the explosion, but I think you caught it just like,
before and now almost what like 11 years in fitting room for you is still a thing right in New York. So tell us a little bit about that business and like how has this journey been for you because you pioneered it. And now it's like swing a cat hit a boutique fitness gym. That's what they say in Italy swing a cat hit a church.
I'm not a swing it got don't swing a cat please I love cats I have two of them. But you know, like now you're still doing it. That's amazing. Right. So what has that journey been like for you? Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (26:01.858)
Yes!
Kari Saitowitz (26:16.334)
I'm so sorry, I'm purposely pausing because my computer was fully charged but this app must consume battery like crazy. I just have to plug in. And I thought usually I do not have to do that for like hours and hours. So I'm so sorry, but I did bring a charger with me. I'm just, I know, I'm so sorry.
Meghan Houle (26:18.158)
Oh, that's okay. We can pause. Oh no. Okay, plug it. Yeah, we can pause.
Meghan Houle (26:29.83)
Oh no, we're draining your computer, no. Hold on Justin, my producer, he'll listen to this.
Kari Saitowitz (26:40.822)
I know, I was trying to figure out, I'm like, how do I signal you so I could pause without you like, you know, missing a beat? Okay.
Meghan Houle (26:45.398)
No, you just say it out loud. Yep.
Kari Saitowitz (26:58.614)
All, like you said, it's like, you know, all the things today, all of a sudden, with technology. Okay, is this going to be okay? Is that all right? If I change my angle? Okay. Great.
Meghan Houle (27:00.442)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (27:09.686)
Oh yeah, no it's fine, no it's fine. Cause we're just chilling, we're just chatting. All right, so coming back in, boom, for my like million, my million questions there. But yeah, how are you really continuing, yeah, how's business going and what did that, what does the past like 11 years where you've seen so much pop up, yeah. What is that setting with you, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (27:15.926)
Yes.
Kari Saitowitz (27:28.394)
Yes. So the early landscape there was to your point, almost no, very little competition in the boutique space. And when I first opened fitting room, I mean, to be honest, the biggest point of differentiation was even just having strength training. So fitting room is high intensity, interval training, it's functional fitness, which was a term nobody really understood, you know, 11 years ago, and strength training in a group environment.
Meghan Houle (27:44.464)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (27:57.794)
So almost all of the boutiques had a very significant portion of class, if not the whole class was cardio based. You know, whereas for fitting room, the big difference was, you know, truly loaded strength training. So lightest weight being seven and a half pounds to this day, but weights going all the way up to, you know, over 100 pounds because you know, kettlebells that will be, you know, 45 kilos, you know, etc.
Meghan Houle (28:27.588)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (28:29.231)
And it really was designed to deliver a workout that somebody would get with a personal trainer, but in a group environment. So the early days, the idea, I mean, it kind of got traction pretty quickly. I remember the first few months being terrified because there was a physical space with a 10-year lease and people who had left jobs to come and work at fitting room. But
Meghan Houle (28:45.205)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (28:50.566)
Okay.
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (28:54.81)
Looking back, it really did. It was full by within like four or five months. That space was full. I had signed a second lease within I think six months of opening the first studio. It did get traction very quickly and the market was just loving. The workouts were super effective. If you're somebody who...
Meghan Houle (29:00.735)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (29:16.472)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (29:19.618)
doesn't typically know what to do. If you go into a gym and like the weight area, you'll tend to just engage with the cardio machines because it's less intimidating. And our clientele is about 70% females and 30% males. Kettlebells are one of the tools that really differentiate fitting room from many other boutique studios and not just having them, but using them in a way in which they're designed to be used. You know, they're ballistic.
Meghan Houle (29:46.885)
Right.
Kari Saitowitz (29:48.842)
and having extremely skilled trainers. So every instructor at fitting room has to be a certified personal trainer to even apply. And for the most part, fitting room is no trainer's first job. This is, you know, our trainers on average have, you know, five or six different certifications. So people were coming in and they were really coached and they really knew how to move and anything could be regressed.
Meghan Houle (29:56.352)
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (30:17.858)
to make something less complex, unloaded, get movement patterns right for people who were beginners or had injuries or re-engaging in fitness, and anything could be progressed. And people could be challenged and continue to learn and not hit plateaus. And every day is different. So there was no getting bored of a program and you're just moving your body the way it's designed to move in real life. So early on,
Meghan Houle (30:27.13)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (30:42.414)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (30:45.006)
Honestly, just being functional fitness and having this heavy strength training component, that was like differentiation enough. Success was pretty quick. We opened multiple studios in New York. I started looking at the rest of the country and other markets, and that's when to your point, you know, competition just flooded into the market. You know, I think, you know, everybody loved their group fitness classes and
Meghan Houle (30:52.311)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (31:07.155)
Ah, yes.
Meghan Houle (31:12.949)
Oh yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (31:13.362)
you know, everybody had a concept to bring to the space. And, you know, competition was getting intense, and not just competition in terms of other businesses, but forces, you know, that were aggregating, you know, the marketplace, and intense pressure downwards as far as pricing, people's willingness to pay because you had third parties that were making classes extremely affordable.
Meghan Houle (31:41.506)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're high, right? Yeah, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (31:42.038)
And so people's expectations, it went from, oh, for a personal training session, I pay upwards of a hundred dollars to okay, like 30 something dollars for a class is awesome to, oh, I wanna take unlimited classes for like $99. And there were just a lot of forces that really threw, I think the whole kind of like industry out of whack. And to me, that kind of came to a head just before the pandemic.
So I spent 2019 essentially working with a growth advisor because I had done all my travels and all my research, even had a couple of letters of intent on spaces and other markets. And then I just kind of got cold feet that the business model itself wasn't going to be financially sustainable. And for fitting rooms specifically, our classes are smaller.
because we're doing loaded strength training, because we want eyes on people to make sure people are not getting hurt and doing things correctly. Our talent is very experienced and educated, which also equates to more costly because we weren't hiring people to play the part of a fitness instructor and just entertain, but really hiring highly credentialed, certified trainers who could go and do personal training sessions for significant...
Meghan Houle (32:35.672)
Right.
Meghan Houle (32:40.282)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (33:02.538)
you know, income. And so for me, just that, that realization of, you know, I know that the business has a certain expense base, and I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to cover all of that, you know, and, you know, make, make a margin on the business to continue to fuel growth, given all of the forces that were happening around me.
Meghan Houle (33:30.394)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (33:30.974)
So by the end of 2019, it was probably the beginning of what is now like this huge pivot and an entirely different business model. But it was this recognition that we had to take this experience that we created in this very controlled, beautiful, everything custom to what we did space and continue to deliver this experience.
Meghan Houle (33:42.213)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (34:00.97)
in different ways. So there was like an opening of the mind at the end of 2019. And at the beginning of 2020, my team and I were scheduled to go to the biggest industry conference, it's called Ursa in San Diego in March of 2020. And we were going to introduce, we had brochures printed and everything, this idea of by fitting room. And the thought was to market it to existing fitness facilities who already pay rent,
Meghan Houle (34:02.006)
Yeah...
Meghan Houle (34:07.087)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (34:20.645)
Hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (34:30.766)
who already hire and train professionals, but bring the fitting room experience to their four walls. And when I looked at what's fitting room, what really makes fitting room special? It's the programming, it's the way people are trained, it's the community that we built, and sort of like all of the touch points that make the brand the brand, and thought, well gosh, like we could do this in other people's spaces and with other people's humans.
So that was sort of the future of the business or what I thought the future of the business would be. That conference never happened in March of 2020. Of course, sort of like, you know, mini pivot was everything going digital, but, you know, bigger pivot, you know, came years later, a little over a year ago now, but being acquired by New York Sports Club. And now we're executing
Meghan Houle (35:07.675)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, March, yes, yeah.
Meghan Houle (35:14.423)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (35:20.89)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (35:28.914)
you know, sort of the same programming, same classes, same training of the trainers, but different business model in that we're opening studios within four walls that already exists within the larger New York sports clubs.
Meghan Houle (35:37.966)
Like partnership. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (35:44.422)
Yeah. So that model you had in mind of March 2020, just took a few more years to bring to life. But it did, right? So it's like the power of putting it out there and sometimes timing, whether we choose it or it's chosen for us, it works or it doesn't. But eventually, if it's meant to be, it comes together. Yeah, and then there is that big pivot. So now with your role with New York Sports Club, how did you kind of move?
Kari Saitowitz (35:51.682)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (36:11.686)
through fitting room and now also absorb, right? This big chief marketing position with New York Sports and how did that come together? And then what are you doing now? Are you kind of balancing both? Like, yeah, tell us a little bit about that. Big pivot, yes.
Kari Saitowitz (36:23.67)
Yeah, sure. Yes. And honestly, the big pivot, so I think, you know, I'm sure we'll talk a lot about just like lessons and advice, but I think one of the biggest drivers of the coming together of Fitting Room and New York Sports Club was the fact that, for better or worse, I had built an organization at Fitting Room that was built to scale. So I had an amazing team.
The reality was that team was too big for the size of the business that Fitting Room was. However, New York Sports Club had gone through a bankruptcy restructuring after the pandemic. There's new ownership, there's a new CEO. And what I had to offer was not just that, we can bring this boutique experience to some of their clubs where it makes sense, but perhaps more importantly, have this incredibly,
competent team that could fill a lot of holes within their own organization that had gone through massive restructuring, a lot of people changes. They had to obviously furlough an entire team during the pandemic and felt that myself having built a business from the scratch, I love brands, I love brands' experiences, could really help with the rebuilding of the New York Sports Club brand.
because there was a lot of damage to the reputation. There were a lot of clubs that had to close. There were a lot of members who were not treated the way any business would wanna treat their members during extreme and unanticipated circumstances. And so it is brand building in a whole new way for me now, cause it's...
It's a rebuild of a company that just celebrated a 50 year anniversary, which is incredible. There's a mix of new people in the organization, but also people who have been there for decades and have a ton of organizational knowledge and experience. It's fitness, but it's very different fitness market. The boutique fitness market is very different than the big box gym fitness market.
Meghan Houle (38:34.928)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (38:45.09)
And I think the amazing part for me was I was able to keep my team intact and were able to impact many more people on a daily basis and many more geographies through the New York Sports Club brand and member experience. And it's been just like an incredible learning. I mean, so there were things that
Meghan Houle (39:08.163)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (39:12.438)
I could take with me from fitting room. We had built a great infrastructure in terms of like marketing and like our technology stack at fitting room because we were starting with a blank slate. We didn't have, you know, old systems, you know, and practices that, you know, have been in place for decades. But we spent last year really building a new infrastructure for all of our marketing initiatives. Well.
kind of like building the plan and flying it at the same time, while at the same time, doing a lot more in terms of member engagement than had been done in years. Sales has always been a major focus of Big Box Gyms. And of course, the sales machine always has to be on in business. But we were able to layer in and add to it a lot of touch points and a lot of engagement.
Meghan Houle (39:41.507)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (40:07.242)
And now I say it's like we get to do like the fun parts of marketing because the infrastructure is in place now.
Meghan Houle (40:13.342)
Yeah, and I think coming into the big boxes, like you said, I mean, there was a definite foundation there. Right? It just needed a little retouching, retweaking, right? And restructuring and hiring and not cleaning out of the old, but I think just refining, right? Refining the messaging. And I think it's now really cool that you have then this option. Because I do feel like I'm
Kari Saitowitz (40:19.178)
Absolutely.
Kari Saitowitz (40:31.16)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (40:40.67)
I am definitely seeing people kind of going back to some of these big gyms because there's a lot more diversity in offerings, right? And then also too, in a sports club, I mean, you probably have seen some of them now across country, I mean, you have like sauna and wellness and other studio offerings that, yeah, you don't get from.
Kari Saitowitz (40:47.864)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (41:01.326)
just the single boutique space. You're in and out, you grab a smoothie, fine. But people are making a lifestyle now, Carrie, right? Go in, some have co-working spaces, right? So what are you really proud of that you've been able to pioneer in this past year that continues to make you a differentiator? And then do you see a really great crowd and following now coming through that was with fitting room that are really buying into, when you come, you obviously have to sign up for New York sports and then you get fitting room. So there's no separation any longer, right? So tell me, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (41:08.546)
Yeah. Yes.
Kari Saitowitz (41:30.006)
There is separation. So yeah, so a couple, I think a couple layers in there. So yes, you're absolutely right in terms of like the evolution of the gym and what gyms are offering. And I would say, a little bit more than half the New York sports club portfolio has been refreshed in the past year, which is awesome. So there are some clubs that have recovery lounges, for example, with hydro massage beds, which is awesome.
Meghan Houle (41:31.166)
Okay, okay. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (41:56.854)
Yes.
Kari Saitowitz (41:59.162)
And there's been a big increase in functional training areas and also heavy lifting. So more barbell platforms and racks. And it used to be that you would find the woman in the cardio area and the guys in the strength training area. And that's just, that's not the case anymore. And it's awesome in the last 11 years since I've been in the fitness space.
women used to come into fitting room and ask if we had lighter weights and our lightest dumbbell was seven and a half pounds. And now it's like you've got women like racking plates onto a barbell and you know, dead lifting and squatting and it's, it's awesome. And honestly, like the real magic happens when you are doing strength training. So all those hours of cardio, I mean, cardio has its benefits for sure. But I mean,
Meghan Houle (42:42.95)
Awesome. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (42:56.522)
If you really want to find your sweet spot in terms of results, you know, adding strength and cardio together to your training is the real secret. So you're right, we've got small group training, group exercise classes, personal training. So tons of different ways to experience fitness, you know, and really looking at each club and sort of
Meghan Houle (42:58.945)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (43:22.91)
You know understanding that particular neighborhood or that particular You know membership base and then you know putting the offerings in place To get people comfortable. So there's in the last year we've introduced You know where there's a my club intro, which is a one-on-one session with a personal trainer it's really all about you know getting people to articulate their goals of familiarizing them with the different services that the
Meghan Houle (43:26.52)
Right.
Kari Saitowitz (43:50.914)
that the gym has to offer, removing that gym-timidation. I like to call it, I think sometimes people confuse like lack of motivation with sort of like fear, embarrassment, or like I'm gonna walk in and not know what to do. I always say as an adult, there's nothing I hate more than like not knowing like where to go, what to do, who to talk to.
So we've got Fit Fundamentals workshops that we've introduced that are complimentary and led by trainers. Anybody could take them. They're obviously great for new members, but it's literally like an intro to the cardio machines and selectorized weight machines. And then another one is an intro to dumbbells and kettlebells and just giving people sort of like tools and like a guided immersion, which has been...
Meghan Houle (44:37.701)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (44:39.378)
really successful and it's great to be able to speak to those things when you are talking to a prospect and people are on the fence because it's not just about figuring out like, is this the right location at the right price point, which I think was the old mentality, but also am I going to get what I need? Am I going to feel supported? Am I going to feel comfortable? Am I going to feel judged? Am I going to have somebody to turn to ask questions? Am I going to meet people?
Meghan Houle (44:55.045)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (45:01.788)
I know. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (45:09.878)
So that's great. And that's been really, you know, it's been fun to put those things in place. In terms of some of the changes, you know, for my team, I mean, like I said, a lot of the changes were infrastructure changes. There's a lot of reasons, you know, as businesses are built, you know, decisions are made in this case over the course of 50 years and they all make sense in the moment. But then sometimes, you know, looking back, you end up with a suboptimal, you know, solutions and.
processes. And so for example, I came in and New York Sports Club had your regional brands, Boston Sports Club, Philadelphia Sports Club, Washington, New York, they acquired three clubs in Fort Myers, Florida called Around the Clock Fitness. Every brand has its own website, had its own social media channels. So in a pre-digital age, that neighborhood brand makes a ton of sense, right? It feels really personal. It feels like it's yours. Great.
Meghan Houle (46:00.42)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (46:04.146)
Now in a digital age, when you're doing content creation, you're writing blogs, you're creating reels, you're putting your marketing message out there through drip campaigns, through social media, having to do that six different times for every initiative that you're doing, it's just not a great use of resources. Those resources are so much better.
Meghan Houle (46:28.779)
a lot. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (46:32.15)
deployed towards things that impact the member experience. And so, from a digital perspective, we've got one website, one brand, one social media channel, all under the New York Sports Club banner name. From a physical perspective, we're, as we redo clubs, as we invest in clubs, slowly changing out the branding on the physical structures as well. But bringing together,
even from a member perspective, this notion that, you know, with many of our memberships, you have access to all the clubs. So think about the pandemic and digital nomads and people working from wherever they are, traveling and DC and Philly and Boston and New York. And just even understanding you're a member of something that's bigger than your, you know, your neighborhood gym. And you know, we really are stronger together. So that's been great. And then we've been able to bring
Meghan Houle (47:08.694)
Yeah, no, that's so nice. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (47:14.426)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (47:23.768)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (47:27.29)
That's awesome.
Kari Saitowitz (47:29.09)
some new member experiences to light. You know, just we partnered with Garmin this summer for a challenge. The challenge was, you know, very like all encompassing so that any member, regardless of, you know, their goals would feel that, you know, they could participate in that challenge and be successful. So we had lots of layers to it to appeal to lots of members. And then going forward, just really balancing, you know.
initiatives that really engage and build community, you know, from philanthropic partnerships to sort of like fun fitness related partnerships to like you said that broader wellness, you know, whether it's partnering with nutrition companies, recovery companies, food and beverage companies, but really defining wellness in a much, much broader sense.
Meghan Houle (48:21.486)
different way. No, and I think people want and there are human definition of wellness, I think has changed over the years. I mean, I, I remember growing up in gyms, honestly, I mean, let's like hashtag golds gym back in the day of member goals. That was that was like my college job, Carrie, we're like, selfishly, you know, I want to just get the free membership. Why not? Right? But the
Kari Saitowitz (48:36.049)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Meghan Houle (48:45.702)
Right? But the days, right? So I grew up with like the stepperobics and the kickboxing. And yeah, we I know, I don't even know. I was today years old when I'm figuring out what 15 pound weight timeline I picked up. It was always like weights what, you know, and then also to I mean, just for me being comfortable with gyms early on and like working with a lot of trainers and things like sure, I got comfortable but I think remembering moving to Boston.
and like stepping into like one of those big gyms for the first time and everyone like looks great and like has all the right outfits and you're like, I'm a loser, you know? So I'd like hop run and like go into the back hall where the bathrooms are and then like go into like the fitness room, because it's like all you knew was cardio. And I think now, gosh, yes, the strength training has been such a movement, but also to like.
like listening to your body and doing like other forms like yoga or like sound healing and all the cryo and like infrared saunas and all the things now like you know people don't just want to go and like beat themselves up and I think that we hopefully have learned over the years that it's just like you can't always just do those like high octane things like with your body I mean especially as you get older right and I've worked through injuries and all the things so
Kari Saitowitz (50:03.022)
That's right.
Meghan Houle (50:09.006)
I love a good one-stop shop and I think that it also is really great to have options in other cities where
Guess what the first thing I do when I'm going to travel I'm like googling. Where are the gyms? That I can work out it right and then to cuz that's so a part of your routine I mean, especially if it's meaningful whether even it's just going in like sitting in a sauna or whatever It's building that sense of community and then you make friends as you travel and then you're like, yeah So I really love that and I love that it seems like you've in your team really brought this like beautiful messaging together of you know, this is kind of like
Kari Saitowitz (50:22.411)
Right? Yeah.
Meghan Houle (50:44.602)
who we are and what we offer and what are some of the future plans? Like what's on your plate right now that you're really excited about continuing to build out the marketing piece? Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (50:57.95)
Yeah, yeah. So basically, you know, look across the year, just different focus periods for really connecting with different members. So there are times of the year where we look for, you know, a real community connection. This year, for example, we partnered with Tunnels to Towers, you know, for a 9-11 stair climb and, you know, and RunWalk.
Meghan Houle (51:10.512)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (51:20.41)
Mmm. Oh wow, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (51:25.782)
which was really awesome. So right now we're putting together our partnerships for 2024. Well, most we're rolling out or in the planning stages, getting ready to roll out rewards and loyalty program, which is something that New York Sports Club hasn't had. And then, you know, engaging with partners for various rewards and launching that with a lot of fanfare, because again, it should feel really good.
Meghan Houle (51:32.806)
Cool.
Kari Saitowitz (51:54.462)
you know, every time you accomplish something to your point, you know, in that wellness sphere. So that's a really big initiative for us this year that will have, you know, a lot of various components. The campaign for that is like purely an emotional play. And it's all about sort of like those different like feelings that you get. Not about, you know, it's like the days of like gym photography are gone. It's all about emotion and
Meghan Houle (52:00.272)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (52:13.595)
Mm.
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (52:20.067)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (52:23.062)
and lifestyle, so that's really fun. We just launched a new website for New York Sports Club, and we still have some additional functions and features coming to the website that are still in the loop. And then partnering with the, I work really closely with all the different groups within New York Sports Club to bring the different experiences to life. So continuing to offer
additional sort of like new experiences, whether it's in the group space or in the training space and looking to like meet more consumers' needs in a really meaningful way. And then fitting room as well. So we just opened one in Washington, D.C. So bringing the boutique experience from New York to Washington, D.C.
Meghan Houle (53:04.005)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (53:09.071)
Awesome.
Meghan Houle (53:12.717)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (53:15.334)
and looking at additional geographies for that. And then as well, looking at additional geographies, where are there underserved neighborhoods for fitness in general. So overall, I think it's really about continuing to listen to the members. I spent the first bunch of months doing focus groups and going to clubs and doing virtual listening circles with members, with the managers of the clubs.
Meghan Houle (53:18.755)
Yay!
Meghan Houle (53:24.414)
Yeah. Oh, I love that.
Meghan Houle (53:31.765)
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (53:45.29)
and then trying to align our different programs and messaging with what people are lacking and what they're looking for.
Meghan Houle (53:55.274)
Yeah, well, and I think, you know, for so for fitting room, is that still separate building and entities, but under the umbrella, right? Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (54:03.518)
Oh yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah, so, so fitting rooms acquired by New York Sports Club about a year ago, a little over a year ago, and the majority of the new spaces will be studios built out within the four walls of a New York Sports Club. So there's one in DC where you literally walk through the same front doors as the New York Sports Club, but once you get inside, you've got two different front desks.
Meghan Houle (54:22.058)
Okay, nice. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (54:31.535)
Mmm.
Kari Saitowitz (54:32.214)
one's for fitting room, one's for New York Sports Club. You kind of go around a little bend to get to the fitting room studio. And then the experience itself can be as separate as you want or as together as you want. So you can literally go in, take your fitting room class and leave.
Meghan Houle (54:43.931)
Mm-mm. Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (54:49.114)
Or you can go in and you can use, you have access. Anytime you take a fitting room class that's located within a New York Sports Club, you can use the New York Sports Club before or after your fitting room class. So if you want to use a cardio machine or do some heavy lifting or use the sauna, you can experience all of that. If you're a New York Sports Club member, you get an exclusive discount on fitting room classes and memberships. You also get your first one.
Meghan Houle (54:55.994)
Mm.
Kari Saitowitz (55:17.678)
complimentary. But it is still sort of like separate websites, separate brand experience, separate sort of communications. Of course, we would love the more crossover, the better. But in general, Boutique and Big Box Gym, there's certainly like a good amount of crossover, but it's not 100%. There's certainly some consumers are different. In New York, we have
Meghan Houle (55:18.758)
Awesome. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (55:27.713)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (55:41.795)
Yeah.
Yeah, makes sense.
Kari Saitowitz (55:48.214)
We opened one location within a New York sports club last June on the Upper East Side. We are about to move our Flatiron Studio, which has been our flagship for the past 10 years. The 10 year lease is up at the end of this month. So we are moving that into the New York sports clubs, just five blocks away in Chelsea. So that's happening like literally next week, next Wednesday is the last day of classes.
Meghan Houle (56:02.228)
Ah, it's up. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (56:08.796)
Mm. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (56:14.003)
You're like, I gotta go. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (56:16.398)
after 10 years at that studio. And that flagship, that is amazing. It was huge. It had two studios inside of it. It was like the epicenter of the brand for many, many years. To be totally honest, that neighborhood does not get nearly the traffic that it got before the pandemic. And the landlord was not able to meet us where we need to be to have.
you know, a viable business there. And it's honestly like just super fortunate that we have this coming together with New York Sports Club because from a business perspective, it is a stronger, better business, leveraging the overhead, you know, that's already within the portfolio. So there, the two studios in New York that are inside New York Sports Club, they actually have their own entrances even out to the street. You can enter through the New York Sports Club.
Meghan Houle (56:55.85)
makes sense. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (57:03.034)
Heck yeah!
Meghan Houle (57:09.724)
Okay.
Kari Saitowitz (57:11.51)
but you can also enter through a separate entrance. So they really feel like their own unique experiences, but obviously we cross market and cross pollinate as much as possible.
Meghan Houle (57:19.374)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Oh my gosh, and how lucky they are to have you. And then to really understand fitting room and just thrusting yourself into this world over the past, what, almost like 12, 13 plus years of fitness. But then starting early on with these amazing, iconic consumer brands and just to the core, knowing people.
and really getting to the heart and the soul of what you're offering and how to, like you said, connect emotionally. I mean, we're all so emotionally driven. Ha ha.
Kari Saitowitz (57:56.918)
Yes!
Meghan Houle (57:59.254)
And I think fitness, I mean, gosh, there's such, and I understand, again, the pandemic, but probably like you very quickly you pivoted to digital and online and we were still working out, look at this bike behind me, that I was the first one to be calling my studios. I'm like, are you renting the bikes? We needed to work out. I mean, that's when we saw the rise. So it's something that I think will always be there, right? And always, and I just feel like it's generationally something that...
Kari Saitowitz (58:09.378)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (58:26.006)
we all get excited about where before, like going to the gym or whatever, it's like, oh, that's what my parents do, or whatever, and kids would play sports. But like now, you know, the gyms, I think because of all the offerings, are really bringing like families and communities and people from all ages, demographics together, to just feel good, right? Just to live a healthy lifestyle. So I love it, and I know you're in one of my favorite spaces, but.
Kari Saitowitz (58:44.034)
Gas.
Meghan Houle (58:49.667)
Before we get to some fun questions, I let you go, because you've got stuff to do. I know. What would you say, as you were mentioning, biggest lesson, challenge in all of this, that really has stood out for you or something also to you, or they're also really proud that you were able to overcome or accomplish? Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (59:08.075)
Yeah.
Biggest lesson, I think, is really...
Kari Saitowitz (59:18.638)
Being able to make hard decisions. That's probably something that was a learned skill, like having hard conversations and making the hard decisions. I don't think anybody ever enjoys it, but getting skilled at it and comfortable with it because I think even now, 11 years into fitting room, I mean, we are still,
Meghan Houle (59:30.402)
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (59:47.962)
making tweaks to really strengthen the sustainability and financial success of that brand. I was all about the consumer experience, not surprisingly given my background, but nailed that consumer experience off the bat. But nailed it to the point of having a business that really needed to
Kari Saitowitz (01:00:19.242)
It was such a rich experience that it wasn't something that I could scale the way I had built it. And so that was really hard because it meant, you know, it's hard to take things away, you know, whether it's internally or with clients. So for many years, we had two trainers in every class, which was incredible, but not sustainable.
Meghan Houle (01:00:21.902)
Yeah. For everybody. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:00:48.35)
And so that's an example. So all of a sudden, it's like you tell your trainers and they lost like, they had like a partner in crime for every class makes it more fun. It means you're building half as many playlists. It means you're moving half as much as equipment. So there was, you're asking people to make changes that it's hard to change. So I think that's just being like,
brutally, eyes wide open, honest with yourself about what works, what doesn't work. And then I think probably, just being willing to make those changes too, like huge points of pride. Like, it's one thing to get through the hard conversation, but like, and then executing against it and figuring it out and finding a way and continuing to evolve. I kind of like always say,
Meghan Houle (01:01:48.402)
No, we have to. Yeah. Well, and I'm sure too. So from an industry recruiter that talks and hires people all day long, I'm sure you do on your end. I love to always dive into the talent piece because I feel like these juicy nuggets for the community that listens in that knows how much I love fitness, but also getting nuggets from a C-level hiring authority, I'm sure you're a decision maker, right, Carrie? So when someone comes in, well, tell me, like,
Kari Saitowitz (01:01:48.662)
It's like one or the other.
Meghan Houle (01:02:16.758)
What positions maybe do you hire for in your sports club? And then how do you assess talent? Like what really stands out for you when you're saying yes and signing someone's offer letter? Like what's that process for you and building your team? Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:02:31.33)
So on the fitting room side of the business, once upon a time I hired for every position. As I moved on, you know, it became focused more on like the business team and the trainers. On the New York sports club side of the business, I would say, you know, I think it's just been one executive hired after me, so it was part of a team of just, you know.
Meghan Houle (01:02:36.957)
Mm hmm. Oh my God, you're like, I'm tired. Where was Megan Hull back in the day? Oh, yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:02:59.094)
multiple people were interviewing and giving feedback. Obviously higher for my own marketing team. And then I just have like a lot of opinions on talent and talent development in general. Above everything else, I think like a shared philosophy in terms of like work ethic is probably like the biggest thing and cultural fit.
Meghan Houle (01:03:02.232)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:03:09.621)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (01:03:23.138)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:03:26.959)
Yes.
Kari Saitowitz (01:03:27.158)
Like you can hire the biggest rock star with the, you know, most like robust resume on the face of the planet. And every experience is like, oh my God, yes, I need a person with this skillset or who's been through this experience. But if they are not a good cultural fit, it will just disrupt, you know, unless you need a disruptor, which can be the case.
But I think that cultural fit and that like work style, work ethic, I could teach people skills, but you can't really teach somebody, you know, those other things. Those are, it's the intangibles. Yeah, I want, I want to see somebody who's just like a rock star at something. It doesn't have to be at the exact thing I need them to do.
Meghan Houle (01:04:02.514)
No, the soft skills.
Meghan Houle (01:04:14.23)
Oh, that's so powerful, because I know this message. Oh gosh, I've been speaking for a bit and also trying to create some other platform things that I'm working on behind the scenes. So stay tuned, Carrie, where I feel like resumes are great. We're gonna need it. We all have digital profiles and things, but.
we've gotten so hung up on the resume. And yes, like I know we need a resume, but I always say whether it's recruiting and sure, I'm sharing my resumes with my clients, but then my clients are also believing in me because I'm advocating for this personal culturally as well. Like, hey, that's gonna be a great fit for your team. Now, if you're not able to work with a recruiter and you're sending your resume to Carrie or whatnot, you know, on the top of it, it's just a piece of paper.
And I feel like the chemistry behind not only making a connection with you, but like really showing up into your core saying, you know, these are my core values. This is what it's like to work with me. Um, examples of being a team player, examples of self-awareness of like, Hey, this was the time I messed up, but this is how I got through it. Um, and I'm, you know, I know I'm a go getter. I love to learn. Um, I'm sure you get maybe I haven't seen individuals that come in with this chip on their shoulder. Like,
done this before or and maybe those are those big robust resumes where you're like great cool you can check all the boxes on a piece of paper but if you can't translate that in real life or that doesn't land for someone wanting to hire you I think the soft skills are always really what gets the job done for someone to say yes right yeah no yes
Kari Saitowitz (01:05:39.554)
Totally. I mean, and it sounds so soft, but like caring, like just actually, you know, like, especially in fitness, like somebody doesn't show up to like unlock a front door or something like that. Like, you know, somebody doesn't show up to teach that 6am class. I mean, you have to care and people are just going to outperform if they care and they're just not going to perform at all if they don't care.
Meghan Houle (01:05:51.343)
Yeah.
Oh, you're, you're in trouble, right? Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:06:08.554)
Yeah, yeah. Oh, oh, good advice. Well, a couple more juicy things, I'll let you go. So in what ways do you feel like your perspective on success or fulfillment in your career changed since making this pivot? Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (01:06:20.746)
Yeah. Wow. I mean, I think it's yeah, defining success has changed a lot. So I think in the early part of my career, success was like, how quickly did I get that promotion? You know, how much is my raise or whatever? None of that was at play from like the day I started fitting room. Early on, success was definitely like just it was all about the business metrics.
you know, the number of clients, their, you know, returns, retention of the team and all that stuff is, you need that. Like that, like that's kind of like almost like now I'm like, that's not really success, that's survival. Like you kind of have to just have strong business metrics or else you're not a business. Success to me now is, it's like, am I happy? Is my team happy?
Meghan Houle (01:07:03.715)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:07:16.874)
are the people around me happy? You know, and working in fitness, the nice thing is like you are putting good into the world, right, the product itself is good for people, which is great, but if I'm working 20 hours a day and my kids are miserable, like it's hard for me to feel successful or...
Meghan Houle (01:07:28.995)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:07:39.87)
If my team is overwhelmed and stressed and I could see they're like answering emails at like all sorts of times a night, like they may be awesome, but they're not gonna stick around forever. And so I think it's now, you know, much more about the intangibles. You know, am I learning? Are other people learning? Like, are we energized because we're, you know, doing interesting things? You know, are we engaged? Like it's...
of all of, it is those softer things.
Meghan Houle (01:08:12.114)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I always say defining. Sure, you can chase the salary. You can chase the big shiny jobs or the big shiny titles. But some of those biggest people on top, you think that have it all, making all the money, are sometimes the most unhappy. And if anything has taught us over the years, and even moving forward, life is so short. It's so precious. And we work so hard.
Kari Saitowitz (01:08:29.846)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (01:08:38.754)
to be able to sit down and obviously this what I do on the other side of my coach against us and really say like What is like a hell yes for you and what is like a hell no and there are absolutely those individuals that Need to fulfill then just hardwired and working those like high octane jobs to and getting slapped around fun. I mean, yes
We need people like that. But at the core, and this is truly who I engage and connect with, I just talked to this founder-led startup early this morning who literally has it in their job description carry. We like to work hard but laugh. And I was just like, I love seeing that in a job description. And immediately, you feel that culture. So I'm sure you're a lot to do with creating that culture and consistency throughout, which I know isn't easy, but it seems like you're pioneering.
some really amazing things. So I can't wait to see. I love like the New York Sports Club. I gotta go in and check out Boston. Maybe you'll bring fitting room to Boston. Stay tuned. But yeah, so before I let you go, what advice for someone tuning in considering a pivot because you made some big pivots from big companies, went on entrepreneurial side and now kind of to the big companies.
Kari Saitowitz (01:09:34.87)
Yes, I would love that.
Meghan Houle (01:09:50.538)
without missing a beat and a lot of individuals I speak to kind of sit with the fact where they've either held their own businesses or work for big companies and then kind of went in a different direction and want to go back big, but are almost like diminishing like some of the bigger projects that they led because they're like, oh, I don't want to seem overqualified or I don't want them to like make up a narrative if I want to step in a job that could be at a different level because.
they're nervous about hiring me because I'm going to leave or not want to stay or like, why do you even want to do this? So in the success you had with your pivots, what advice would you give to somebody maybe really thinking about making a move, either from a big company into something smaller and really robust or the opposite? I don't know. What would you say to somebody tuning in, like, I need to change a job in this new year? Give them some inspiration, Carrie. Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (01:10:38.762)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I would say first is probably like to be like really, really honest with yourself. And then I think you have to like just have conviction and trust in that and tell someone, right? Because I think like that first like putting it out there in the world is huge.
Meghan Houle (01:10:58.723)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:11:04.258)
But for me, I remember the conversation, the first conversation I had with the CEO of New York Sports Club. And I was like, listen, Fitting Room is great, I love it. I do think it's the best fitness, boutique fitness class that exists anywhere on the face of the planet for 8,000 reasons. But I was like, honestly, there's a million three studio boutique fitness brands. And I bet a bunch of them are probably good. What I'm telling you is I can help fix this brand.
Meghan Houle (01:11:32.582)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Kari Saitowitz (01:11:33.878)
I have a team, we are highly functioning, we work together, we are super capable. Like I will run through walls for something like I care about. And I did, I mean, like I wasn't like laying it out. I was like, I love doing this. Like I love building brands. I want like, you know, I wanna bring it together. I kind of like knew what my strengths were. And
Meghan Houle (01:11:39.272)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (01:11:50.134)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:11:58.21)
Yes, yes.
Kari Saitowitz (01:12:01.002)
just sort of like leaned into it. And there were scary things. I mean, I ran fitting room, every little detail of that business for 10 years and basically, you know, handed that role to somebody else on the team and was like, I really need you to run the business because I'm gonna focus on this marketing stuff, which I love. And, you know, marketing does touch everything, but it was like a lot of honesty with myself. And then,
Meghan Houle (01:12:17.543)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (01:12:28.898)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:12:30.354)
not being afraid to lose control over some other things. I mean, there are decisions that happen on the fitting room side now that like, I don't know or don't have all the details on, but yeah, yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:12:34.815)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (01:12:39.074)
Right? Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:12:44.57)
Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Oh, and it's just going in. And I always say to you, you can't expect someone to see the potential in you if you're not going to show up and give them a reason why to listen and really being bold and authentic and unapologetic and just passionate. Overall, like passion. Like, I can do it. This is why I want to do this one. And they're like, oh, yeah, we cannot live without bringing her on board. So yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:12:58.454)
Yeah. Yes.
Kari Saitowitz (01:13:04.598)
Right?
Kari Saitowitz (01:13:10.89)
Yeah, it's that caring piece. And people can tell, I think, when you are speaking from the heart. And so I like honesty. When I'm interviewing people, I just want them to be honest.
Meghan Houle (01:13:13.118)
No. Yes.
Meghan Houle (01:13:21.402)
Heck yeah, and own your story. I mean, I think too we get caught up in like, I have had gap years, like pivot years, years where we had kids or we were taking care of elder parents, whatever, just own it. Don't leave anything out of your story. It's made, also you don't necessarily need to focus on things that aren't relevant unless it's brought up. I've had a lot of people like to let out all the skeletons. I'm like, no, keep those skeletons where they need to be unless it comes up, right? But I think it's just really.
Kari Saitowitz (01:13:33.559)
Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:13:41.438)
Right. Don't tell me about the pimple I can't see.
Meghan Houle (01:13:48.366)
owning it unapologetically because yeah, there's nothing to hide. This is me, you know, and not being in this Oh, gosh, I hope that I get hired and force force. But like, this is why you should hire me and kind of like bringing this like really great energy to it overall. So
I love that your teams are very lucky to work with you. And I'm very lucky now to know you and be in your space. And I can't wait to come to New York, see you in person. But before I let you go, some fun things. What's maybe like one non-negotiable when you're not doing all things like workout fitness? Like what's a non-negotiable in your routine that you just like get up and get excited to do every day or any fun books or shows or vices that you have.
Kari Saitowitz (01:14:15.562)
Yes?
Meghan Houle (01:14:33.914)
Give us your skeletons, Carrie. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. Oh, yas, girl. Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (01:14:38.511)
I would say watching a Yankee game. But since we're not in baseball season, honestly, like not skipping meals. I like, I like.
Meghan Houle (01:14:48.05)
I mean, hot girls eat, like we eat, you know? Yes. Yeah.
Kari Saitowitz (01:14:53.838)
Yeah, it's like the fun stuff. It's the outlets. I don't work out every day, just like everybody's like, it must be such a fitness nut. I'm like, no, actually I'm not. Like, but I do eat dinner every day. You know, and like this year it's all about just like making time for experiences, you know, just friend has like a favorite tennis player playing in some match and I'm like, do you wanna go? Like stuff like that, you know, just.
Meghan Houle (01:14:56.362)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:15:03.226)
balance. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:15:09.206)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:15:13.186)
Yeah, I love it.
Meghan Houle (01:15:19.335)
Yeah, so fun. It's coming.
Kari Saitowitz (01:15:21.886)
making that time. Baseball season, it's all about watching my kids play baseball and watching the Yankees.
Meghan Houle (01:15:26.786)
Yeah, oh, so what's your go-to meal? Like, what do you love eating? Yeah. Oh my God, me too! Yeah, no, I can't do it anymore.
Kari Saitowitz (01:15:31.25)
Oh gosh, you don't want to know that from me. My team would tell you pizza. I hate salads for lunch. I hate it so much. A salad's like something I eat with a meal. It's not something I eat for a meal.
Meghan Houle (01:15:40.95)
Yes. Yes, I actually have gotten out, because I'm obsessed with pizza too, so offline you have to tell me where to go in New York, but I like put some salads sometimes like on the pizza. Right? Yeah, I mean it's like a, yeah, like a double dip. You're like, I get vegetables and cheese and sauce. It's amazing. Oh my God, Carrie, well I am so obsessed with you. I am so impressed and you know, just really in awe of all that you've built in your career and I can really tell.
Kari Saitowitz (01:15:51.126)
Yes, yup, done that, done that.
Kari Saitowitz (01:15:58.538)
Yes, yes!
Meghan Houle (01:16:09.862)
following your passions, but also staying true to who you are has just really led you to where you are today. So, I'm excited to see all that is to come. And thank you so much for sharing your voice on the podcast and where can people find, engage with you, you know, we can certainly link up the sports club for anyone like traveling to the cities where they're at and certainly check out Fitting Room as well, but where's the best place to engage? Maybe link up on LinkedIn.
Maybe you'll get a flurry of resumes being sent to you. Sorry, sorry in advance.
Kari Saitowitz (01:16:41.358)
Yep, I'm on LinkedIn. It's better than salespeople, it's usually salespeople. Talent is actually good, talent is a good thing. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on, I mean Instagram's probably my most used social channel. And then of course, Fitting Room New York Sports Club, that all finds its way to me as well. Fitting Room not spelled correctly, Fitting Room spells with an H after the F, because there's high intensity training built into that. Fitting Room functional, functional high intensity training, fit.
Meghan Houle (01:16:43.61)
Yeah. Okay, we got you. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:16:58.5)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:17:05.524)
Mm-hmm.
Kari Saitowitz (01:17:08.938)
spelled our way.
Meghan Houle (01:17:10.282)
Yes. Awesome. Well, we'll link everything up. And everyone, check out Carrie. Follow her on Instagram. Check out New York sports clubs, classes. Lift some weights. Eat some pizza. Thank you so much for being here, Carrie. All the things. We're giving everyone a checklist. Yes. Oh, my god. Yes. Well, have a great rest of your day. Thank you again.
Kari Saitowitz (01:17:25.172)
I love it. Thanks for having me. We'll do all of that in New York.
Kari Saitowitz (01:17:32.342)
Same to you, thank you.
