Pivot With Purpose Season 6 Episode 27 Solo Full Transcript

Meghan Houle (00:01.912)

Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of Pivot With Purpose. I am actually very excited for this episode today because you are with yours truly, Megan Hull, my first true solo episode where if you go back to the beginning of time of Pivot With Purpose in 2021,

I launched a solo episode about why I created this podcast. And since then, we've had six seasons, lots and lots of episodes, lots and lots of guests. But as we look to pivot into 2025, I am so excited to change up the platform a little bit on this podcast. And as you guys know, I love to keep it real. And if you do follow me on Instagram,

at all things Meghool. If you're not following me, go click the show notes and make sure you're following along my adventures, because it's literally a comedy show. Hashtag Netflix, bring me on your network, coming soon. But with that, always here to entertain everyone, I think in sharing my thought leadership with you around all things, pivots, careers, hiring, recruiting, the process, what's broken.

frustrated career professionals, frustrated business owners, not being able to find the right hires, retain talent. For the past 20 plus years, I have been working to build teams both for myself and now as an agency recruiter for the past 13 years, I get to work with global clients all over the world, really specializing initially in recruiting for luxury, but now I've branched off into all things consumer goods,

focusing in on the retail industry, but a lot of the consumer facing products that we love working within fashion, beauty, wellness, lifestyle brands, fine jewelry, timepieces, health companies, all of these incredible businesses that are doing really wonderful things and selling wonderful products from big global brands to small startups, founders, and everyone in between. And gosh, I feel like it has to be in the thousands.

Meghan Houle (02:22.926)

Gosh, that I have either hired or brought on board, you know, from my early beginnings working at Bath and Body Works and Wet Seal. Yes, I used to sell flammable clothing with lots of beads on it and no backs with, we just wore all those club tops. Remember, like the back was always open and we were always so cold. It's like everyone was like cold in 2025, 2000, 2005, 2025. No, we're cozy. We're in our...

cozy girl era, but 2005, does anyone remember like standing outside for the bars and like St. Patrick's Day with like high heels on and no jacket with a clurb top on? Yeah, if you were in the Cape Cod mall in 2005, I probably sold you that clurb top. just saying, but I digress. I've placed many, many people high achievers in their dream jobs. I've built high performing teams.

led high performing executives to their pivots, helping everyone, as I was mentioning, from globally recognized corporate brands to solopreneurs, solve business problems with hiring solutions and creating profitable businesses by getting the right people on their teams with my expert talent development strategies. And y'all, I will go up against any recruiter in the industry. Recruiters come for me.

to say that my processes, my communication, like I am so passionate about this process to ensure it is a positive one on both sides as a client to be able to work with recruiter that listens to you and cares about your process and bringing you qualified candidates, right? Not just throwing crap at the wall. It's not about working with an agency that's sending you 15 resumes where none of them you want to interview. Hello, hashtag waste of time.

where you have a highly talented expert who's been hiring forever be able to send you five resumes, which out of that, you will hire that person, I promise you. Or if not, we go back to the drawing board and we find somebody really quick. So I work all across North America. It's amazing. I feel like I have friends all over. So shout out, drop me a line, tag me in this podcast, repost it on Instagram, please.

Meghan Houle (04:43.822)

You know, girls got to eat over here. So trying to grow this podcast with my solo episode, Voices Over Here. But if you've worked for me or you worked with me and you've had an amazing experience, would love to hear from you or not. I mean, come for me. Here's your opportunity. But with that, I wanted to jump on and talk about 2024 and really the interview process. And if you've been navigating a career pivot at all,

In any case, you may have this feeling that the process has been harder than ever on both the candidate side in terms of getting noticed, the number of applicants, the competition, the confidence, the self-doubt, all the things of like putting ourselves out there, and also the client side of the process where I know there's a lot of individuals on teams that are frustrated and wanting to hire faster.

inefficiently, right? We don't need to like speed through the process, but there's too many cooks in the kitchen, too many opinions, like too many everything. Not everyone's always going to agree on everything, right? So I feel like there's a lot of companies and brands that get in their own way and can't make decisions because it's just no one can get on the same page. So I am here as we close out 2024 to talk about what a shit storm of a year, let's call it as it is.

on the recruiting and hiring side of things. And listen, I've had some incredible success. I am so proud of my team and all of the incredible projects that we filled, that we filled some very big strategic roles. But that's not to say that we haven't had people that have fallen out of the process, not showing up for the first day, declined an offer, took a counter offer. mean, all the things that we deal with. And I thought this was the right moment as we reset in the new year.

New year, new job, new me, new you, to get us on the right track with a ton more to look forward to. And so many things I'm building in 2025, I cannot wait to share, to flip recruiting on its head, to change up this process, to get it out of the musty, crusty, dusty world that it's in, of just this old school way of thinking, and really make it fun to navigate what's next and hire top performers for your team. So all that being said,

Meghan Houle (07:05.166)

This is coming from your favorite talent partner and cheerleader with a side of love. Hello, I'm Megan Hull. And it's really time to call it out like it is, you guys. 2024, the job process has felt longer, more complex, and more frustrating than ever. And quite frankly, it feels downright exhausting out there. And anyone agreeing with me, again, slide into my DMs, slide.

slide into my emails, everything's linked in the show notes. I would love to hear your stories of recruiting or hiring and or navigating the job search and kind of keep an open forum because I feel like this topic is not going away anytime soon. But really it comes down to the evolving expectations and demand for the perfect fit and how that has transformed how companies hire.

So both employers and candidates are finding the process increasingly time consuming and stressful. So why has this interview process become so hard? And what can both sides do to navigate it better? The million dollar question, right? So again, not to toot my own horn, but I will. As a top agency recruiter who has truly successfully, listen, if you don't toot your own horn, no one else is gonna, okay? So.

who has successfully navigated executive search for almost two decades on the client side, on the candidate side. I've been in stores, I've worked on the floor at LVMH, at Louis Vuitton, I've helped hundreds and thousands of clients. I just know what it feels like to be in service. It's safe to say I have some credibility on this topic when it comes to exploring both perspectives of those looking to hire, AKA the employer, and those looking to get hired, AKA the employee.

So here's my take on the process, sharing actionable tips for each side to consider on ways to improve and keep the momentum moving in any search. So lock in, sit down, grab a piece of paper, pull over your car, grab your notes if you're on a hot girl walk on your iPhone and then start hanging some notes. So whether you are a business owner, global CEO, hiring manager or career professional,

Meghan Houle (09:24.492)

this episode is for you. So why the interview process is more challenging these days. Listen guys, the competition is heavy. There is a sheer volume of candidates that makes it difficult for employers to filter and assess potential hires quickly. I'm sure we have all seen from LinkedIn looking at a job post, the hundreds of applicants up in that corner of like 10,000 people applied. You're like, sweet, let me just try to throw my name in here. No.

And that adds an extra level of anxiety for some professionals questioning whether they should apply for the job or not. Will my resume ever be seen? Million dollar question number two. And on the client side, so that's a professional pain point. On the client side, it can take a valuable time for applicant vetting via traditional or through ATS systems while often filtering through professionals that are applying to these jobs

at times of those whose backgrounds are just not the right fit, right? So, I mean, we get it all the time with the job applicants coming in and trying to apply for retail jobs and they're in completely different industries, never worked in retail before. And not to say you can't pivot with purpose, podcast, know, core of this podcast, but it's just like, if you maybe are a state cop.

and you're wanting to apply for a retail job on Newbury Street, you might think twice. And yes, it's happened. We've definitely had some interesting resumes come through. I'm like, cool background, but have you ever sold women's clothing? Just curious, right? So yeah, that's a question. So it takes up time, and there's more to come on that. But just don't throw your resume around into everything, guys, please. But again, more to come on that.

There's a lot of layers of the interview. So think of an interview process like a blooming onion from the Outback Steakhouse, right? The big crispy onion, you're out on like a hot date or like with your parents, whatever, depending on like how old you are. Because like, what was it? Early 2000s. I don't think I've eaten at an Outback Steakhouse for a long time. That onion really slaps though. However, yes, I say slaps. Sorry.

Meghan Houle (11:50.274)

You can just turn the podcast off now if you want, but it's like there's so many crispy layers and complexities and structural things. if you look at a process like that, there's lots of layers to navigate the hiring process. I was saying before, it becomes so much more collaborative that instead of traditional times of a simple

manager interview and then you sort of move forward to the hiring manager, candidates go often through multiple stages, meeting with team members, senior leaders, HR professionals, and this adds time and complexity to the process. Not to mention on the candidate side, many roles now require you to complete some type of case study or content submission to understand your way of thinking.

and brand fit alignment before you even get into the interview process. So that is something I know sometimes people are not subscribed to. I don't want to work for free. I'm not sharing my ideas for free. Listen, I get it. But there are things that you need to be willing to be flexible for and maybe not depending on how excited you are about the role. But that's a whole nother podcast about, you know.

certain case studies being taken and the process going away for that certain candidate, but some of their ideas being used. Like, yeah, that's a whole nother podcast, but you have to trust it and trust your gut that what you're doing to showcase your work is potentially going to lead to this role coming to fruition for you. Hello. So if it's a part of the process, trust your gut. And at the end of the day, I feel like we're constantly on the candidate, the, the client side, this relentless search for the perfect fit.

So it's AKA that sort of unicorn candidate search. Like we're looking for a unicorn. Okay, me too. Is it like under a pot of gold with the leprechaun and then like what? You want me to buy you a stuffy, like a unicorn stuffy we're gonna do that? Can we just like stop looking for unicorns please? Like unless you're rainbow bright, like come on. So companies are looking for candidates that are not only the right fit in terms of skills, but also it's cultural alignment with their teams, their values.

Meghan Houle (14:12.428)

the mission. And in this like unicorn process, I mean, as I was saying before, it leads to drawn out interview cycles, depending on how many decision makers are involved in the varying chemistry options, right? Like think about the team you're on. I'm sure there's like one person that you hate, like don't lie to me, right? There's like one person you're like, meh, if she went away, I would not be sad. But like not Regina George, like get hit by a bus, but like, let's be honest. So.

when you have those different layers and levels. Not everyone's going to like everybody that you're interviewing, but as a hiring manager, you need to come to the table. If you really want to bring this candidate on board to your senior leadership team and tell them why you see the potential in this, and sometimes you're going to eat it, if it's a bad hire, cool, let's move on. No shame blame game here. I think that's where people

are getting so stressed, especially after the pandemic of not making a wrong hire because they don't want the finger pointed at them, like, you hired this terrible person and then you're like, shame for the rest of your time working there. So everyone like chill out. You can make really amazing hires. Give me a call, I'll help you. But if you don't have the budget to use a recruiter on the founder, client, CEO side, trust your gut on a person, do the background checks, put them through a small case study if needed.

But at the end of the day, no, it's just like finding a house or anything, right? It's not always going to be the perfect fit, but for someone who you know could fit into your team, that is someone you can train, someone who's willing to learn, eager, excited about working for the company, you know, those things obviously you cannot replicate. So the chemistry piece I get,

But let's calm down a little bit with everyone involved and make sure the key equity stakeholders of bringing this person onto a certain team, those people at least have the buy-in. So fight for those great candidates you want to hire. And let's not forget some economic uncertainty. Virtually raise your hand if you're driving. Please don't raise your hand. Two hands on the wheel, please. But raise your virtual hand if you've ever.

Meghan Houle (16:24.522)

been in a search process that's been put on hold or have had to go in a different direction. And I knew we've gotten through the election. There was a lot of concern on what's happening there. We're moving on. The decision's Cool. Let's control what we can. But, you know, it is frustrating on the company and candidate side. And I feel both sides of it because I've been on both sides of it. The world ebbs and flows and navigating economic uncertainty.

certainly can slow down the hiring process, which I feel like we've been experiencing this year in 2024. And it really leads to hiring authorities being concerned about money coming in and the budgets, about being concerned about extending offers and really taking time to evaluate budgets and necessity of roles. we've had it multiple times this year. We've started on a project and then a

project went on hold or a job went on hold and you're just like, okay, will it ever come back? Who knows? But it's something to consider on both sides that we've been dealing with and it's a part of the process that we can't control. And finally, we are dealing with sub-par technological hiring tools. So while ATS systems, which is applicant tracking systems, like the matrix, the job,

Matrix minus like Keanu Reeve being on the other side of it because like that would be amazing. And AI powering hiring tools have, you know, some have improved efficiency in areas, but they've also added layers of complexity. So what I hear on the candidate side, and I've seen it myself as many super qualified candidates, you know, Megan, I have a thousand resumes. I'm like, really? Like how much time did that take you? No.

They're making up all these resumes to try to crack Keanu's matrix code and they're not even making it past the system's filter, which immediately it's like, I don't know if you've ever applied something and immediately they've got like, thank you so much, we're all set. You're like, what? Like literally, literally what happened, right? So to get an immediate rejection email, mean, that is like, yeah, I just snapped you guys, snap.

Meghan Houle (18:44.802)

but that is like keywords. So keywords must have been missing or something where, you know, it just, for the individuals that I've seen missing out on some amazing opportunities, it's really frustrating. But at the end of the day, going back to what I was saying before, if you don't make sense for a job based on your skills or your experience, save yourself and Keanu's Matrix ATS system.

some time and energy and just hold off on applying. Especially if some of those key requirements are specific language skills, computer skills, like hard skills that you probably don't possess. It's not like a frown and like find out. We're not like fuck around and find out. Unless you like love being rejected and you're like come for me, but.

Save yourself some time, energy, frustration, and really focus on the things that you know you make sense for. It'll keep the database a little cleaner, but more to come on that, everyone. I can't disclose yet, but we're doing some things over here to help that process out. So yay, something to look forward to in 2025. So here are my tips for navigating for candidates the interview process. So all job professionals, listen up.

These tips are for you. So for candidates, it's all about persistence and preparation and of course finding the right balance between standing out and fitting in. Right? So you want to stand out from the pack. How are you making your mark? How are you leaving your mark in the interview process? How are you creatively writing emails or strategically asking for outreaches or networking opportunities to inquire about a job that

really sets you off from the pack, like not chat GPTing like a networking note, but like really putting some personality and thought into it. And then, you know, once getting into the process, like how are you fitting in with a team to leverage your superpowers to bring to the organization to be the hiring solution. So tip number one for candidates, tailor your resume and application. So yes, you want it to align with what you're applying for.

Meghan Houle (21:06.734)

But as I mentioned, like don't go crazy having five different resumes. So given the use of AI and screening, as we were talking about, make sure your resume is optimized for at least some keywords relevant in the job description. The job description gives you a lot of clarity. Look through the job description, pull some keywords out, make sure some of those keywords are certainly in your resume, especially when it comes to like critical skills, requirements, and use specific.

clear language that aligns with the company's needs and those requirements that they're asking for. And in terms of a cover letter, I go back and forth on this. think we, are the days where everyone wants to like click like five different attachments. I am in the service of hand your information to people on a silver platter and make it as easy as possible. Hence going back to all the steps that we talked about of like why.

this search process is so exhausting, but you want to have a good pitch for yourself to go along with your resume on why is your background the most aligned to be the hiring solution for the role you are applying to. And I would take at least five bullets based on the job description that fit your experience and try to, in a concise email, provide examples of you're looking for this,

I've managed that, I'm comfortable doing this, here's where I did it. It's all about what makes you the most qualified candidate. So tailor your resume and application as much as possible and create an enticing pitch for yourself. Give someone a reason to get you on their calendar. Number two, strap in and prepare for multiple rounds of interviews. So expect...

a multi-step process in the interviews. It's not one and done. Sorry, guys. Going back to it. Lots of interviews, lots of layers. The Blooming Onion, But be prepared to maintain your enthusiasm throughout. If there is a twinge that someone sees of frustration, eye rolling, like, another interview, yes. And if you actually say that and roll your eyes.

Meghan Houle (23:32.994)

you're out, so God bless. But you really want to maintain enthusiasm. Be in it for the long haul. Be flexible, be agile. This is all showing those soft skills. why should someone bring you on your team? There you go. Look at all my soft skills. And make sure you go in and build rapport with each interviewer and be ready to demonstrate not just your skills, but how you align with a company's culture and values.

And being mindful, again, there's probably going to be a project or a case study that comes along with it at certain levels, at varying degrees of executive level marketing or creatives wanting to see your work. So stay open to whatever comes along in the process, especially if you really want the job. Number three tip is to follow up thoughtfully. So after interviews, I'm a big

component of thank you. Some people will tell you, don't send me a thank you. Fine, don't expect to respect their wishes. But a personalized follow-up note to maybe pull out something from the conversation, brief but meaningful, to keep you top of mind and show you your continued interest after the interview is really important. I would say thank you notes are a must.

And it's a great way to leave a lasting impression and bring something in from the interview that has resonated with you and link it back to the relevance you have for the position. Number four, ask about the process early. So this is a key one because I think a lot of people get so nervous about asking questions. They're like, I don't want to seem too pushy or too eager.

If you don't shoot your shot, if you're not asking the right questions, you can't leave it up to fate of like, maybe they'll call me. Try to get as much clarity as you can before leaving that interview of what's next. So do not hesitate to inquire about the interview timeline and next steps early on. Knowing how many rounds to expect will help you prepare mentally. So like, okay, it's gonna be five interviews.

Meghan Houle (25:47.874)

And then manage your expectations, right? So you're not sitting there like, I thought it was just gonna be one. It's like, no, there's a journey for here. And then you're like, okay, cool, let's ride. It is totally okay to ask about the next step. So what the timeline is, this is going to give you clarity on when you should expect communication and how soon you would need to map out a potential resignation timeline. So for anyone interviewing now, I mean, it's December, 2024 for anyone listening to this in the future. Hey, I hope you're doing well.

But I hope we're all well. it could be we're in this, it's four weeks, or we're looking to bring somebody on on February 1st and whatever. So you know, so you know, and mentally you know. And I would say in this process, if you are then on other interviews, getting other offers, but you're really excited about this role and opportunity, keep communicating with that hiring authority or your point of contact to say,

hey, I have another offer on the table and I will tell you, brands that truly wanna invest in good talent that are all aligned, they don't wanna lose you. So communication is key in this process because it's a little frustrating and nerve wracking and annoying to be up against multiple offers. it's like Feast or Fam and sometimes you're like, what do I do? So ask early on about the process, what the timeline is and that's just going to help you manage things a lot better.

on your end on the candidate side to hopefully land that dream job and navigate what's next for you in a more efficient and confident way. So that's that. So flipping over to the employer side, my juicy hiring managers, authorities, CEOs, founders, anyone who is building a team, here are some tips for you to help

and expedite the interview process and hopefully make things more streamlined and less frustrating for you on your end as well. So first and foremost, number one, streamline the number of interview rounds. And as I was saying before, while it's critical to ensure a good fit, an excessive number of interviews can actually detour top talent. So actually can turn people off. mean, 15 interviews like enough, like enough.

Meghan Houle (28:11.63)

Who's interviewing these people? Just send them to me. All you need is me. I'll filter them out for you. But consider limiting the process to three, four rounds. Identify early on in the search who are the key decision makers rather than involving too many layers. Tip number two, improve communication. Candidates are often left in the dark during the hiring process. And I'm not saying that

It's necessary, although I do. So again, if you are working with a recruiter, I feel it's my responsibility to really give closure to anyone in the process. But there are a lot of people that go back and forth with me. If someone's interviewing, we're not moving forward. We don't need to follow up with them, which has led to this Goldstein culture and just people feeling slighted. think about the way you manage the interview process is a reflection of how your brand operates internally.

Let that sit with you. It is literally your brand profile and someone seeing the inner workings of your company. So if it's a hot mess express, no one can get on the same page, you ghosted someone that you've interviewed four weeks ago, and you're finally resurfacing. It's like, you're taking pity on me now? Like your other people didn't work out. I mean, that's what candidates are feeling on that end. especially for those top candidates that you're super passionate about.

keep them engaged, keep them informed with regular updates. And for those that you're not moving forward with, I'm gonna say this and take it as it is, but a no, no thank you is better than nothing. Put like an email signature saying thank you so much, we're going in the different direction in your outlook and just click it and like have it be almost like automated.

something in terms of follow-up so someone's not left hanging. We appreciate you so much. Thank you for your time. We'd love to stay in touch with the future. going in different direction. Great. Amazing. Someone can move on with their lives, but it's leaving this kind of like open space where we know with anything. If there's not something loose tied up that, especially if we're really passionate about, it just again creates, yeah, it's, you

Meghan Houle (30:33.902)

It's like putting a bad taste in someone's mouth. And honestly, you never know when you might want to hire that person again. Bottom line, follow up with people. Obviously, you can tell I'm very passionate about this topic. It helps to maintain interest in your company, again, long term, and fosters a positive candidate experience. Even if the decision takes longer, it's a simple follow up email. So even if you're extending the process, follow up with somebody. Next, number three is use technologically.

technology wisely. So while AI and ATS tools can help filter applications, ensure that they are calibrated correctly to avoid rejecting highly qualified candidates. And helping to automate interview scheduling can also save time for both parties as well. So whether you have calendar leaves that you can send,

or your immediate availability versus like going back and forth, especially if you don't have a PA from someone who sets up interviews all day, every day and like in my sleep, I like dream about Outlook calendars and Zoom links. Save time, save time. Build a calendar, get people on, make video links easy and accessible and use technology wisely. Why did I even put this point? I can't even say it. So with that.

Yeah, you just don't want to reject highly qualified candidates. So make sure your filters are up. All the tools that you're using are really going to help you attract the right people. Next, number four is clearly defining job requirements. And this really happens, I would say, the search even begins in making sure all the stakeholders who this individual is going to be a part of the team on knows

specifically what they're looking for. And they are aligned with the expectations for the role. So often long delays come from that uncertainty or shifting priorities of the role or responsibilities within the company. So ensure that hiring managers and HR teams or anyone that is involved in this process is clear and aligned and has expectations for this role.

Meghan Houle (32:52.152)

that can prevent unnecessary back and forth during the interview process. Get aligned on what this person needs to come in and do for your organization so you have a clear and concise and true job description. And finally, create a sense of urgency. So treat the hiring process with the same urgency as other business operations. Unless it's something that's come up on a budget and you need to put a pause on it,

The longer you leave a job open on a team that may be picking up the slack for this position being open, the longer and more expensive the individual, not it's going to be, it's expensive to just keep jobs open, but you are putting more pressure and stress on those individuals in the business that are picking up the slack that can lead to burnout and frustration.

and resignations and other ways if this problem isn't being solved and they don't see a light at the end of the tunnel and they're just going to be doing more work and not getting paid for it, blah, blah, blah. So set a clear deadline for internal reviews and decisions and make sure all stakeholders adhere to a timeline. So you got a new project coming out. Okay, on or before February 1st, we're going to have this person in place and try to stick to it unless budgets or other things come up. And if not, pivot.

Communicate with the team, let them know. But this is all key. All of these steps on the employer side will help to improve and expedite your interview process. So at the end of the day, how can, with all this knowledge of information, wealth of information I'm throwing at you, how can we better bridge the gap between employers and candidates? So the hard truth is that both candidates and employers need to adjust.

to the new realities of the hiring process. And as you think about navigating what's next as a professional, when you're talking to a recruiter, and I get this all the time, where I'm going through your background, okay, great, let's talk about what's next, what are you excited about doing, who do you wanna work for, what types of jobs, I'm open to everything. No, you're not. Make a list.

Meghan Houle (35:13.848)

There's three things. There's a hell no list. There's a hell yes list. And there's like, okay, there's a list of stuff I'm really good at and let's see where we can marry that. But the hell no list, if there are things that you don't wanna be doing, don't go for those jobs. If there's companies, sizes companies, things you don't wanna work with, don't try to fit yourself into those businesses, brands, teams. Make a list of what you want to maintain in your career.

and what you want to let go of and approach each opportunity strategically, staying resilient and adaptable. And then for employers, on the other hand, streamlining the process, prioritizing open hires, having transparent communications will allow for internal stakeholders to all get on the same page. So by focusing on efficiency, clarity,

And the human element of hiring, there's putting the human in hiring, human process in hiring, I should say. Companies can secure the best talent while avoiding burnout on both sides. So it is time to take back the recruiting process, use these tips and tools, both on the professional candidate side and company side, to align top talent with companies to create amazing experiences.

throughout the interview, engagement to offer, and hopefully onboarding a new hire and for career professional. Celebrating a new job. So should you need more support with your hiring process or navigating your next move? Lucky for anyone listening, I have a lot of options to work with me if you are a business owner or a founder or CEO looking to hire for your team.

go in the show notes and click on, I think it's my recruitment concierge link. You'll see it's for business owners only. So definitely let's book an intro call so we can understand your needs and how my services and my team services can benefit you. And if you are a professional looking to navigate that next move, needing help with a resume, a LinkedIn audit,

Meghan Houle (37:33.614)

career clarity, road mapping, goals, structures, your pitch, strategies on how to network and outreach to get noticed in the right way. Click on my career concierge link and let's book a session or a few sessions and talk about how you can strategically set yourself up for success in 2025. The interview process.

does not need to be as drawn out and as frustrating and as exhausting. And I hope this episode for all sides listening in got some amazing nuggets. I look forward to seeing all of you incredible individuals coming onto my calendar, booking those calls. I'd love to get to know more about your business goals, your career goals. And I can't wait to see what the new year brings for us all. So thank you so much for your time and energy listening into the podcast. And I hope you have a wonderful holiday season and

See you in 2025.