Pivot With Purpose Season 6 Episode 26 Lia Garvin Full Transcript
Meghan Houle (00:01.664)
Hello, Lea. Welcome to the Pivot With Purpose podcast. My friend, one of my favorite people. How are you?
Lia (00:08.797)
I am great. I'm so excited to be here. I know we've been planning this for a while and so super excited to be on.
Meghan Houle (00:17.132)
Well, I have to say, definitely you coming into my world has been certainly a super big, bright, shiny spot highlight over the past, I would say what, like 16 months that we've kind of known each other? Maybe, well, maybe like 13. It's like having a toddler. Like, how old are you? You're like, just say a year, One year. Leah and I met.
Lia (00:30.075)
Yeah.
Hahaha
395 days.
Meghan Houle (00:42.29)
Right? want to say 395, but no, Leah and I met in Mastermind and really connected and Leah has such an incredible background in operations and team building, which, you know, to my core is what I do, but Leah coins herself as the team whisperer, which I will let her go into that. And she really, I think is going to drop so many amazing nuggets in this, especially if you're a business owner listening in.
or a global CEO, a lot of my community, as you know, Leah, are like high level fashion brands to entrepreneurs and career professionals. And in the mix of all of this, someone's always navigating a career search or what's next or navigating a difficult team member or transition. So I can't wait to kind of dive into all that you do to support teams, but tell us a little bit about the here and now, like where are we catching you?
Lia (01:18.877)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:39.272)
What are you up to? I know you have a lot of irons in the fire and Leah is somebody who is also like a woman after my own heart in terms of personal investment in herself and like development and growth, which has changed my life certainly. So I love that we're very aligned there. Yeah.
Lia (01:42.257)
Yes.
Lia (01:55.365)
Yes, absolutely. Well, yeah, I would say kind of on the professional side, I just wrapped up the manuscript for my third book and this book's coming out in January. It's the New Manager's Playbook. So it is a playbook for first-time managers or folks kind of in their first few times managing and offering really concrete and actionable strategies and tools for just figuring out the world of managing.
I wrote this because I just got the question over and over, like, what book do you recommend for new managers or what is the go-to? And I felt like, you know, not to do my own work, but like everything out there was kind of like looking back after many years later, what you would have done or really dry and textbook-y or just the same strategies over and over. And I wanted to share a real talk, you know, under the hood, like,
here's what's hard about being a manager, here's places I really didn't get it right, and here's the lessons that I learned and tools that you can try out so that you felt like there was someone that really got what it's like when you're dealing with someone and you're trying to give feedback and they're like, well, I don't like the feedback you gave. And you're like, well, what do I do with this? So I'm super excited for this book because like I said, it's so tactical and practical and it really pairs well with a lot of the work that I do for.
bigger companies around manager trainings and team workshops and really helping teams operate more effectively together and feel more motivated amidst all the change and uncertainty that's going on right now.
Meghan Houle (03:31.116)
Literally every team or manager or CEO listening in, you need to bring in Leah for a workshop because I will tell you, and we can go into this, but I feel like 2024 just overall, Leah has felt like very heavy. There's certainly a rise and probably coming out after the pandemic of individuals that are very vocal about their boundaries, work life,
Lia (03:35.494)
You
Lia (03:46.587)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (04:00.968)
a commitment to not working in a toxic environment as much as you can navigate that. Not a lot of things that I feel like you can tell me if this was you. I mean, it was definitely me, but that I subscribed to early on in my career because that's just how it was, Right? And if it was super challenging or you had a manager that led in fear and was always screaming, I feel like I remember being called a robot at one point. You're just like,
Lia (04:06.522)
Yeah.
Lia (04:18.32)
Yeah.
Lia (04:27.837)
You just did it. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (04:30.704)
this is my job, that's how it is. But like, this is not the workforce, like up and coming. And especially with like managers that maybe are those assistant manager levels are kind of a few tiers down where maybe they don't have great examples up at the top. And they're like, how can I be a better manager, but not like my manager? So
Lia (04:47.09)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (04:51.98)
I know that you have so many resources, so I can't wait to dive into it, but I can't wait for your new book. It's going to be so needed and so timely. But how do you feel like 2024 has been just overarching for you and what you're seeing in teams right now? Yeah.
Lia (05:05.383)
I mean, I fully agree. I think it was a real low point. mean, besides the data and the research, like the Gallup Organization reports on employee engagement, it's just down every year, like since the pandemic, record lows of engaged teams. And I see it everywhere from big companies. I do a lot of work with big tech and large organizations and as well as small businesses. think kind of the main line right now is I'm not feeling motivated, right? And it's really hard for...
any level of manager, leader, CEO, you know, to deal with that because we're also really strapped financially. And so the answer isn't just to keep paying people more money. And that's not even what people want the end of the day. But I think we're in a really hard place where, like you said in the past, just having a job and getting paid was somewhat of enough of a motivator for most people. And now we're in this new place where people want to feel more
purpose in their work and they want to really feel like there's meaning in it and they're utilizing all their skills and superpowers and they have a real sense of, you what is their career vision and all those things are great and they're really important and how to, you know, cultivate that as something that I do a lot of work with leaders on. And we've lost the motivators that used to kind of, we used to be able to rely on, you know, like I think about when I was working in big tech,
like at a place like Google, like the performance review was such a motivator. Getting that rating you wanted and getting the promotion was enough to motivate every single employee there. And that now I wonder with companies that really leaned on something, if you have a workforce that's now younger and younger, less, you know, it's like, hey, I'm okay at the level I'm at. Hey, I don't really, I want more flexibility. I want to be able to travel. I don't need to get to climb the ladder. What?
what motivators do we have anymore? Like I think the whole thing is shifting. And so as teams are feeling less motivated, as leaders, we're like running out of options on how to keep people connected to the work. And we're having to change that whole mental model. So like everybody's stressed about that.
Meghan Houle (07:14.41)
Yeah, well, I mean, and on what I do on the flip side for recruiting, which again, a lot of where we, our synergies align are very much like side by side, but it's been like a very challenging environment too for people to not only get hired and be seen with this like massive amount of candidate like population that's just out there throwing around the resumes because like maybe, you you deal with someone has a bad day and they're like,
Lia (07:37.211)
Yeah. Yes.
Meghan Houle (07:41.932)
it. I'm out of here." And then applying to everything on LinkedIn. I'm like, please don't do that. But I think again, it's such a delicate, delicate balance of, and we talk about this a lot, know, is getting somebody set up for success when they're coming into a new organization. And I think we've even seen more than ever in the first 90 days, people not working out, Leah.
Lia (07:42.779)
Yeah.
Lia (08:05.658)
Mm, yeah.
Meghan Houle (08:05.728)
because they're thrown into like a band-aid situation where maybe this job has been open for like six, seven months and everyone's just stressed to the max having to wear like multiple hats waiting for this person to get hired. And then the person comes in, they're like, thank God, here you go. And you're just like, wait, I'm new here, what's my job? Which is scary, right? So.
Lia (08:09.351)
Yeah.
Lia (08:20.003)
Yeah, yeah, like wait a second. Yeah, well, and it's funny because I had a person ask me about, were gonna hire, it was a smaller business, they were gonna hire a new ops manager and they said, you know, we had someone, they didn't work out and you know, if you kind of help give us some good coaching and guidance on how to hire like.
how do we guarantee they're gonna be a fit? And I was like, you freaking serious? Like there's no guarantees with people like humans, none. But when we talked, I said, I can offer you and like I'm sure you do with folks, I can offer you a mental model of how to, you think about what your role needs and how you onboard and how you evaluate the things that are important to you and really understand, know, what makes someone successful in your team. But like you said, I think a lot of the reason
Meghan Houle (08:45.964)
There's no guarantees.
Lia (09:10.585)
new hires aren't working out right now is that because people are spread really thin or maybe we didn't, we feel like, okay, we have to move really fast, we have to keep up with competition, let's just open a role or let's, we think bringing on more people is gonna solve a problem when we haven't fully defined the role, we haven't figured out what that onboarding looks like, we maybe got someone that was.
super, super specialist and we actually, you know, we shifted a bit and now that person doesn't really have a home anymore. And I have a client that works in a ad agency and she hired a new person. And actually, fortunately for her, the person came to her and said she didn't think she was a fit. Usually the other way goes and then you have to man somebody out. But this team member came and said, hey, I didn't realize the pace that, you know, this, you guys operate at. This isn't for me. Now,
Meghan Houle (09:54.43)
Right. Yeah.
Lia (10:04.059)
My client said, this was pretty disappointing because we're gonna add agency and of course that's the pace, you know I mean? Like that's one of the fastest pace kind of industries you can be in. And yet we talked about, well, what was the missed opportunity there was really expectation setting in the interviews talking about, hey, this is what we can expect. We have to work around the clock when certain things are going on. Here's how we compensate people. Is this something that you really feel you can sustain?
Meghan Houle (10:10.688)
Yeah.
Lia (10:32.763)
and then reiterating that in the onboarding. And I think we're believing people would understand the pace or the rigor or the expectations in a team based on like maybe what Gen X and even, know, millennials to some extent, we're kind of used to operating at and now I think we're seeing more people want flexibility or a little bit different boundaries with work and it actually doesn't really meet the expectations in many cases.
Meghan Houle (11:02.12)
And I think that I love that you say that and like calling it out, especially in the interview process. I'm always like no surprises. I laugh to the point where I like sometimes talk people out of jobs, Leah, because I'm like, are you sure? And as softly as we can deliver, because like we're not trying to create this like chaotic view of like what they can expect, but it's better to know now and also like really make sure that
Lia (11:10.428)
and
Lia (11:28.016)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (11:30.54)
in that culture fit, you know, somebody is going to be a chemistry match for that type of like energy and environment too, which like you're the team whisperer on the career clairvoyant where, you know, I talked to somebody and like literally two minutes, I'm like, no, this is not for you. People get mad and they try to like talk you into it. And I think that's where people get stuck. It's like they talk themselves into the job until it's like day one. And they're like, what did I do? Which, you know, no one wants to be in. So yeah.
Lia (11:46.715)
Yeah!
Lia (11:54.311)
Yeah.
Lia (11:57.829)
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And like you say, right now there's so many people just throwing darts at the wall, right? There's anything between folks wanting career changes, the aftermath of the great resignation, lot of layoffs. So there's more senior folks in the job, like looking for jobs, which is a smaller pool of roles that we can sort of believe we can make concessions that when we get there, we're not going to want to. And I think
Meghan Houle (12:00.874)
Yeah, my gosh.
Meghan Houle (12:18.176)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Lia (12:27.569)
the way that you can mitigate the risk. Again, there's no guarantees, but is to be really clear on expectations around what does the job require? What is actual career advancement look like? I was talking to someone recently that was looking to bring on a director level person in their team. And they said, well, we can bring them on at this level now, but they'll be able to advance in a director level. was like, well, is that?
you you can't tell them that and then like actually it takes two years because they believe that that was happening, right? Yeah, immediately. You know, I think another piece just quickly on the hiring side is really thinking about not inflating titles, right? Like that's something I'm seeing a lot too is if you're gonna hire someone that's director of, head of any sort of executive of a title.
Meghan Houle (13:00.268)
They're gonna think that like, I'm gonna be a director. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lia (13:20.943)
they're gonna want a team that's gonna be doing all the implementation execution work. right? You can't hire a director of marketing and then tell that person, okay, they're gonna be writing all the social media company. They're gonna say, well, wait a second. And they're also gonna want a way higher salary than the marketing coordinator you really meant to be hiring for. So that's another of its expectation setting again, right? It's, hey, what level of seniority do we want?
Meghan Houle (13:24.743)
God, amen. Yes, yes.
Meghan Houle (13:39.862)
Right.
Lia (13:49.309)
of ownership should this person have? Are they gonna have a team? What's the comparable pay? And all those things all have to fit together. You're have someone that, yeah, 30 days in they're like, screw this. Like I wanna get this other job that pays me more and I get some support, you know?
Meghan Houle (14:03.628)
Right, I'm not doing Excel spreadsheets. I know, and we'll definitely have those people and anyone listening in at that senior level, unless you're excited to go back and do Excel spreadsheets and things. And you see it a lot of times with the more of like the startup brands. I get it a lot in beauty where there's these amazing emerging indie brands that we all love and that we shop at Sephora.
Lia (14:05.991)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (14:29.93)
and people have stars in their eyes of like, I wanna work with so-and-so company, but the stars will surely fade if you're in there and you're like, I'm doing the job of eight people and I also did this job like 10 years ago. But again, some people are like, hey, cool, career growth, like I see the opportunity in this company, it's a fast moving rocket ship, whatever. So like your why has to be there, but I just, feel like it's so right. The expectations have to be super clear.
Lia (14:43.239)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (14:55.488)
you're gonna be doing this, you may feel like you're going like a little bit backwards, we can hire, but it's probably not gonna be into early next year or whatever that is, but those all have to be real conversations for things to move in the right direction and for that retention to be there. But tell it, like I wanna talk about you because I feel like what you do and how you teach and all of the support that you give like comes from a place of true credibility. So like, why are you qualified to do all these things, Leah? Like tell us early.
Lia (15:02.087)
Mm-hmm.
Lia (15:06.406)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (15:24.438)
career, Leah, working on some pretty big prestigious teams. My West Coast base girlie, which will be in Napa soon with that Napa house doing retreats, don't you worry. But tell us early, Leah, highlights. What were you leading and managing that led you to what you're doing today? Yeah.
Lia (15:25.521)
Yeah.
Lia (15:34.31)
Yeah.
Lia (15:39.41)
Yeah.
Lia (15:43.525)
Yeah, so I spent the majority of my career in the corporate role, as Megan said, driving team operations. So being in the details, in the weeds with teams on figuring out, well, how do they get their work done more effectively? And this was within product teams. So I did this at Microsoft working on Bing, really working in a chief of staff capacity with our VP around, you know, how do we get folks collaborating? How do we drive organizational changes? How do we communicate priorities and goals to our teams?
I then moved on to HoloLens at Microsoft where I oversaw design operations for the launch of the first HoloLens that was really about getting design and product and engineering really aligned and how they communicate and set goals and plan work and deliver on time. Then I moved to Apple and I did that work there as well, working on our design team, optimizing workflow through the studio as we working on the iPhone X launch and a number of other products at the time.
really supporting how was work going all the way from concept and ideation to the production design team, which I was supporting so that that wasn't all getting thrown at them at the end of the line. From there, I moved to Google where I worked again on augmented reality and supporting design team operations where it was really again about how do we make sure folks were getting the, you
folks are operating at their best, but also really working in congruency with engineering and product and really getting everybody communicating the way that they needed to be, tracking their work, everything so that we could be delivering on time and really setting the strategy for the next direction of products. And so, I share some of that more tactile side because a lot of times when I talk about what I do, which is,
you know, my goal is really to help make managing easier, bring out the best in your teams. A lot of times folks think that's an HR function. while I, like some of my closest friends, closest colleagues operate and work in HR and have, this is done on the actual, like on the business side within the teams, because it has to work together. HR is not the only people that need to care about people, right? We all have to actually care about people. And I've found that
Lia (18:06.929)
through figuring out team operations, really making it clear roles responsibilities, how we track work, what are we meeting about, how do we make approvals, these team operations elements, when we get those all squared away, the work quality goes up, work gets done faster, people are happier, burnout goes down, and all the things that we're trying to mitigate, I think sort of peripherally, are actually resolved. So take for example, you know,
there's just burnout is really high. It's been talked about for the last five plus years, right? But one of the real reasons folks feel burned out is because they have too much work to do and they really don't know like what they're driving towards. That's one of the biggest things that causes burnout. A team that has 5,000 priorities, you don't really know what you're supposed to do first because your leader says everything's important, just get it done. And so you're like working on it and you're just...
Meghan Houle (18:40.716)
Huh.
Lia (19:03.133)
every day you feel like you don't have a sense of accomplishment. You know you're gonna not get everything done. You feel just a general sense of like, I hope this is right. That cognitive load, that's what causes burnout. And it's not solved by giving someone an extra vacation day. It's solved by actually tightening the priorities and having the team. No, they just come back and you're like, you take the one day off and you're like, F this, I don't like this place. If they come back, right? So I like,
Meghan Houle (19:18.678)
No, because then you come back to it and you're scared. You're like, no, I don't want to come back.
Like I'm never coming back. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. Yeah.
Lia (19:32.857)
My mission is to really streamline the how work it's done on the team. Right, leaders, you know, are responsible for the what, the why, the vision, the strategy. You have that completely dialed in and figured out. But if you don't have someone focusing on the how or if the how is complicated, then it doesn't matter how inspiring the vision is because people look at that and they're like, well, yeah, but where do I fit in? Or how does that make any sense to me? Or I don't know, like.
I went through my task list, isn't that enough? No, they have to know how to be effective, how to be successful, it has to be easier to get work done. And then they're just like kind of, it's a rocket ship.
Meghan Houle (20:12.278)
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So many things there. to your core, I just love that so much, I so agree and aligned, and I hope this message hits with so many people because it's not about throwing more time off or like, just take a vacation or whatever. If the inner workings of the team are just spread so thin and everything's a priority, everything's urgent, and there's no like…
Lia (20:16.615)
Yeah.
Lia (20:37.02)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (20:40.636)
and greater goal in sight other than to just get all these things done and you're sort of working in a tornado, then people are like, no, I have no purpose here. I'm just kind of a cog in the wheel, which I hear a lot. And I also love when
Lia (20:46.62)
Yeah.
Lia (20:50.374)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (20:56.14)
leaders give visibility to individuals at levels to kind of show like, okay, this is what and this is the why. Whether it's numbers, metrics that they're creating, you know, like driving for like the greater good of the business. Like obviously a lot of my background is in retail. So what we used to do is for employee meetings in the morning, like share numbers, share the penetration of like ready to wear in shoes and like how everyone's contributions like hit the greater good and like
Lia (21:03.591)
Yeah, sounds like it.
Lia (21:11.663)
Yeah.
Lia (21:19.685)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (21:22.89)
why we're down from last year and what's not working. And this was like years and years ago. But I think like to, we've been actually have some of our sales team like do shipping and operations in a couple of days or like inventory to like understand what the ops team does and like really appreciate those people that are doing different roles than you because then I think your commitment to the overall excellence of the business, like you've seen it from all sides and you're not working in a silo.
Lia (21:24.998)
Yeah.
Lia (21:35.516)
Yes.
Lia (21:40.956)
Yeah.
Lia (21:49.65)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (21:51.786)
which helps and I know not every company is set up for that, but I do love that and like thank you for sharing because visibility you can give to people that are going in and bus in their butt and saying like, wow, I understand why we're doing all of this is super helpful and great education. Yeah.
Lia (21:52.124)
Yeah.
Lia (21:56.731)
I love that.
Lia (22:04.463)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I love your example of just learning about, could take, it doesn't have to be shadowing it for weeks. You could take an hour and meet with every job function and ask, know, hey, walk me through the tools you use. What are some of the pain points? What do you like about it? Like, you could actually get a really good download around every job function in your team pretty easily, right? I mean, yeah, it's not zero time, but.
I think you're right, like the value in really understanding what are the different pieces of the like players in our game and the different functions and how do they work together? This just makes you a better leader that has more, not only just empathy for what everyone's experiences, but you can really see the dot connection opportunities and where the gaps are. Like if you say, wait, well, that's really what your biggest challenges are because over here, I thought those were being solved by this team, right? You can actually, by taking that time and doing that little,
kind of speaking circuit or whatever, like to just get a sense of road show or whatever, get a sense of each of the departments, each of the teams, highlights, lowlights, you'll, and I think frame it in a learning curiosity standpoint, as opposed to like folks feeling like they have to just show you the best sides of it is gonna be so invaluable.
Meghan Houle (23:02.529)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (23:15.19)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (23:19.798)
Yeah. Yeah. All the things. Well, thank you for sharing all of that. And I really want to shift into retention, the key drivers, more of the communication and transparency. what would you say, and maybe in this big picture year that we have been talking about, what are the biggest challenges that companies face in retaining top talent?
and how have the challenges evolved also in recent years? Yeah, I know you touched on it a little bit, but just curious to speak directly to it. Yeah.
Lia (23:51.813)
Yeah.
Lia (23:58.011)
Yeah, I think that to answer the second part first, I think that one of the biggest evolutions was like pay is becoming less of the primary motivator. Now, this doesn't mean we don't have to pay people well. So I wanna be very specific about that. We want, I think always, and I'm sure you probably say something similar. We wanna pay people the top of our range, when they're, when, know, like probably as most as much as possible because that's how you keep people. They're gonna be.
There's so many ways to get a sense of what, you you could be getting paid somewhere else. So pay is critically important. That is like on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. That need has to be met. That's the bottom, but that's not enough, right? And so I want to say we want to be paying people well, competitive, top of the range, like very, you know, to incentivize them to stick around. And then there's more, right? And I think that's changed is that it's not enough just to get the paycheck as much as it had been in the past.
And so that does make it really hard to continue to motivate folks. And so I think certain things like feeling like you have some connection to the bigger picture, some sense of meaning, some sense of purpose, right? This actually came through in that infamous study done at Google in 2015 around what were the ingredients of an effective team, right? And they found psychological safety was the most important, but then there was, you know, there was five factors and two of those was,
meaning an impact. Like people actually do need to feel like their work matters and that's now more important now than ever, especially, know, what Gen Z and younger folks are communicating is important to them. And so this doesn't mean we all have to be, you know, saving the world with the work we're doing, but managers specifically have the, you know, responsibility of making sure folks see how their individual role connects to the bigger picture. So sitting down with someone and saying, hey,
you are a project coordinator on this thing, and this is an administrative task. No, this helps us make sure that there's like seamless execution throughout like the whole workflow in the team. And without that, people were getting deadlines missed and what they're doing. So your job is critically important for this reason, right? Just give them a why, like you said, Megan, like give them something to hook onto and people can find meaning really in anything that they're doing. I think the...
Lia (26:24.349)
other driver of attrition is the lack of recognition. And a driver of retention, I should say, is I think we're not recognizing people enough because people are needing it more than they had in the past. And so this doesn't mean we got to give out participation awards or applaud someone just for showing up to work, no. But giving people really specific, meaningful recognition, and that's gonna be really valuable now more than ever.
And that doesn't have to come in the form of money either, right? Saying, you know, thank you, Megan, this last few months, like we had a lot of really late nights and you you just stepped up so much and you know, really, you know, made such a huge impact. I know you're working towards that promotion next year and I got my eye on that and I just wanted to thank you in the meantime, right? You know, just giving someone a concrete specific example, saying, hey, Megan, you know, we had a really difficult stakeholder in that meeting and...
Meghan Houle (26:53.206)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (27:13.28)
Yeah.
Lia (27:21.009)
you know, they were asking some really pointed questions and you handled that like such a champ. Wow. Like I was so inspired by the leadership you showed. That recognition, that doesn't cause anybody anything, right? Yeah.
Meghan Houle (27:30.93)
no, zero dollars. Thank you for sharing that too because I'll never forget early career Megan, up and coming, imposter syndrome moment where you know my story, where I used to work at Whatseal. Do you remember and have you heard all my stories? I know. I feel like it's a part of my personal brand now. That was like 7,000 years ago. I'm a relic and I'm also iconic, okay? But I got a job at Louis Vuitton.
Lia (27:47.261)
No, now I gotta hear it.
Thank
Meghan Houle (28:00.808)
and went from selling, you know, tops in the clurb to $5,000 handbags. Casual, right? And I remember being at a meeting in New York City in the towers, in the 57th Street towers around like all these beautiful, fancy dressed individuals where I'm like barely, you know, can afford the Louis Vuitton shoes with the discount and like 70 % off of that because I'm just like getting my, you know, so I get my first luxury job. And,
I raised my hand in this huge corporate meeting talking about CRM and try to ask really insightful questions and participate. And I remember
being at Penn Station in New York City, ready to go home on the train, and this is when I was running the store here in Boston, and my regional called me and she said, I just want to thank you so much for participating in that meeting. Like your question was so amazing and you know, I really appreciate you speaking up and asking, know, insightful question about how we could be better in this, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, my God, you know, thank you for just like, thank you for hiring me first of all.
Lia (29:07.783)
Yeah. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (29:10.986)
But, you I think there, that's when I kind of like really locked in to my regional and like trusted that you were being seen, right? And I think that sometimes all people want to be seen and heard. And you're right, it doesn't have to come with like stickers and accolades because that doesn't exist anymore. You know, I'm sure team lunches or things like that are like always appreciated during certain times of year. But yeah, I love that, Leah. Sometimes it's just being recognized. It can be very simple. So.
Lia (29:20.647)
Yeah.
Lia (29:24.753)
Yes.
Lia (29:39.941)
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Meghan Houle (29:40.374)
That's great. Thank you for sharing. So in terms of talking about employee burnout, so my next hot topic for you, I'm putting you on the firing squad for questions. So how can companies better recognize the signs of burnout before it retention? And what would you say are there like maybe proactive steps that leaders can take to address burnout earlier? Like how do we have these conversations and how can we be better?
Lia (29:57.628)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (30:09.694)
at recognizing it before it gets to that point, you know?
Lia (30:10.394)
Yeah.
I love that. mean, so just to throw another stat out there because everything Gallup puts out, I quote sometimes at some point, there was a study recently that said 40, between 40 and 44, can't remember, percent of voluntary attrition can be prevented. And I was like, ooh, what does this say, right? And this was folks that had left a job were interviewed and they said, you know, well, had your manager intervene at any point or ask you how you're doing? And the answer was no. Okay. And so,
Meghan Houle (30:14.731)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (30:20.425)
I love you.
Meghan Houle (30:29.911)
wow. Yeah.
Lia (30:43.293)
The flip side was, hey, 40 % of people said, hey, I might've stayed if someone actually talked to me about it. And I think the first thing that we can do is not just wait till someone comes to us. Because a lot of times people, you you look at your leader or your manager and you're like, they're too busy, they don't care, I don't wanna bother them, or I don't wanna look, it looked like I can't cut it I can't handle it, I don't wanna be a complainer. People have all these stories about why they're not gonna flag that they're not doing okay.
and then they wait too long or they are unhappy. like, I'm just gonna look on LinkedIn. I'll just do a couple of interviews. And they find you a job before they ever mentioned anything. Okay, so you have a whole bunch of people out there that may leave your team without ever saying anything was wrong. And I say that because I think recognizing the signs, yes, when someone that used to be a 10Xer, their productivity dips, that's obviously a sign. I would say someone that's like,
Meghan Houle (31:40.14)
Yeah.
Lia (31:42.209)
usually camera on in Zooms that goes off, probably doing a side hustle. like, you know, like that person's got a side hustle. Yeah, engagement. Yeah. So reduced engagement for sure assign someone that usually signs up to, you know, is eager to volunteer for stuff on the team or help out some sort of dipping out someone calling in sick a lot. If you are a, you know,
Meghan Houle (31:46.636)
They're like, what are they doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's like disengagement, right? Like that's a sign where there's a disengagement. Yeah, yeah.
Lia (32:09.935)
in person primarily, working from home a lot. like you said Megan, a change in behavior I think is a big one. And again, there will be people who never show you anything and they're like, boom, here's my two week notice. And so both of those things, whether you see signs or you don't, are mitigated through in your routine one-on-ones, which I advocate for doing weekly or bi-weekly, you know, and you can, if you have a huge team, you can do 15 minute, but like I think,
waiting till meeting with you a monthly is a little bit too long. In those conversations saying, hey, what's something I can do to better support you? Share a highlight, a low light. What's something that could be better? Not asking yes or no questions, but asking open-ended questions. So get someone thinking a little bit more than, no, everything's fine, yep, we're good. And asking that question every time you meet. Not once and being like, whew, they didn't say anything, we're fine.
Meghan Houle (32:41.216)
Yeah.
Lia (33:07.707)
Right, or every few meetings you check back in. I think the mistake we can also make is asking once, you and then nobody says anything and we're like, well, I said, come to me if you needed something. Maybe I didn't, know, everything, I wasn't really sure how to articulate what was going on with me or I didn't want to share that day, but you know, you demonstrated, hey, you really are trying to show up for me. I think another we can do as leaders is,
share a window, and this comes with some boundaries, into stuff that's maybe not so great that we're dealing with. So this really works well with feedback, right? So instead of asking your team members, hey, do you have any feedback for me? Where they say, no, I don't manager, please don't ask me this, right? You say like, you could say, hey, what feedback do you have for me? That's very scary because I don't know if you want me to say something really small or something major. And if I say something wrong, am I gonna get retaliated again?
Meghan Houle (34:04.404)
Right, like a retaliation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lia (34:05.891)
Yeah, exactly. So what I suggest is saying, hey, I've been really, you I notice I have been a little bit too much in the weeds lately. And I've been really trying to give my team some space to really take ownership of some of the work. And I really I'm inviting you if you notice I'm stepping into the weeds again, please flag it. I'm really working on this. And I would love feedback around that. So inviting feedback around a specific thing.
shows that you're self-aware, you're open to it, you've scoped this feedback request, and you can say, hey, if there's anything else, please do share. But I wanted to kind of give you insight into something I've been struggling with and really trying to do better at. So in the same vein of that little strategy for asking for feedback, on the burnout side, I think it's totally in your right to say, you know, this has been a hard year. The stuff that you and I talked about a few minutes ago, right? This has been a really hard year. I think a lot of us are spread thin. We're getting towards the end of the year. It's been...
Meghan Houle (34:34.924)
Yes.
Lia (35:02.845)
It's just been rough and I know I've had days where I'm just exhausted and it's okay if you're feeling that way and if you need something, come to me, I'm here. And just like planting a seed that we're not a company where you have to pretend everything's fine or you're bad or you're not good enough. And that little volunteering some vulnerability is really, really helpful. Now notice I didn't say.
my God, we're F'd. There's like, we might have layoffs, you know what mean? Like this world is so uncertain. You don't go in like, yeah, sky is falling. Yeah. But you give like a little bit or dump all your life's problems on your team with like, But like, you know, the vulnerability overshare, whatever Brene Brown says, you know, but you give a little bit of humanity. And I think people respond well to that.
Meghan Houle (35:33.832)
Right? Like you're not Michael Scotting the office of like, we're all going down. Yeah. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (35:49.088)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (35:55.361)
I love that. Again, I'm like, where was Leah early on with early on Megan? We are a dream team already right now. But I'm just like, but I remember these like self-awareness moments where I was allowing a associate that was working for me to transition into my role as I was transitioning out. And, you know, I had this kind of like letting go.
Lia (36:02.173)
Right now.
Lia (36:17.479)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (36:21.002)
control factor of having to be a part of meetings and just letting her do her thing. Then she would go back and not complain, but sort of complain to my leadership of, Megan's not letting me do my thing. I'm like, but you think you're supporting her, but you're actually not allowing people to grow. For me, that was a great self-awareness moment, but you're right. think sometimes people don't speak up.
Lia (36:22.875)
Yeah.
Lia (36:37.053)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (36:45.548)
because they're scared or it's not the environment. So I think the managers, you you have to build that comfortable space with setting boundaries in reason on both sides. But communication is key, girl. We say it all the time. You know, and I think on that in terms of retention, career development, you know, do you feel like companies are doing enough to support employees in their past? And like, what do you feel like?
Lia (36:48.381)
Yeah.
Lia (37:03.473)
Yes, huge.
Meghan Houle (37:12.692)
How do you feel like that plays into retention in terms of having somebody that does have a clear plan? Do you feel like it's all over the map or are you seeing people that do it well or do you feel like it's a miss right now? Yeah, because everyone wants to be like, what's next? I get hired and I want to be in what's next. But there has to be something because I feel like someone buying into the future of where they're going to go. Sometimes it's harder to see, but I think that it has to be a part of conversations eventually in terms of their own development. Yeah.
Lia (37:25.969)
Yeah. Right.
Lia (37:36.124)
Yeah.
Lia (37:42.261)
100%. I think it's really important. you know, I would say I don't know trend by industry, but I think every, you know, kind of team should have, I think their managers should have career conversations with their employees, you know, to the extent that, you know, it makes sense for their industry. So for example, maybe if you are the manager of a restaurant, doesn't make sense, you know, to talk about that with your team members.
Meghan Houle (38:09.354)
Right, right.
Lia (38:10.045)
But I will tell you, even in that case, like if you are running something with hourly employees, and you're like, should I ask my receptionist? Like they're just kind of here part-time, they don't really, you know, what's their long-term thing? You never know. And it's worth understanding what drives any team member, you know what I mean? And what's their bigger vision? Because let's say you're running a restaurant, I know this is not really the listener, but like just to kind of use an out there example, you know, maybe someone says, hey, I want to be a manager of restaurant one day, and I really want to learn the ins and outs.
that person could become someone that helps you do your job better because they want to be kind of like a protege or something for you, right? Or anything. And you wrote them off saying, they work two days a week. What do they care? You know I mean? And so just to answer again, yes, I think we have to be having career conversations, having understand what people's bigger vision is for themselves. This is a great thing to lean on when folks ask you about, is there going to be layoffs or reorgs or things like that?
Meghan Houle (38:41.622)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Lia (39:06.459)
You know, we really, again, we said no guarantees. You don't want to say to your team ever, there will be no layoffs, you know, no, you know, because you don't know that. And that's why all the big tech layoffs, in my opinion, of January, 2023 were referred to as the great betrayal because all these companies said they would never do layoffs, they would never do this. And then they did them. Now, it's not a betrayal if you said, hey, I don't know what the future holds. There's a lot of uncertainty, but guess what?
you know, I know that you have this vision for your career and here's what I can do while you're here to help you get there. If you want to be a leader one day, I'm going to help give you opportunities to mentor other people. You can take this class in leadership skill development. You know, here's an opportunity to really be running in leading meetings. That actually starts breeding so much loyalty where it is a retention driver because someone sees, wow, like, I don't know if I'm going to be here forever, but this manager's really invested in me and my success.
You know, it also talking about career gets people out of, when's my next promotion? When's my raise? When's my next title change? Which can make you hate having one-on-one meetings. I know that I dreaded them when I had a team member that every week, I want to talk about my promotion. I want to talk about my promotion. It was like, we had to get out that rat race. And how I got out of that was saying, hey, we're going to talk about your promotion, like at this type of meetings, but I need to know what's the bigger picture because we didn't even know.
Meghan Houle (40:15.03)
Yeah. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (40:23.436)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (40:29.781)
Mm-hmm.
Lia (40:32.637)
You know, like, and it helps you be able to actually lead someone instead of telling them like micro-corrections that may or may not get them to that next level. And so, know, for some kind of tactical suggestions, I would say having, you know, your company have career conversations like twice a year that are not the same as the performance review, where you talk about what is your goals for the next, you know, maybe five years or so and...
What are some concrete things that that team member can do so they should own their career plan, whether it's training or visibility or personal professional development. And then they come back to you and share progress in that plan. Like people also should be accountable for their own career. It's another thing, managers listening, you don't need to own that career plan, no. You are aware of it so you can also look proactively for opportunities, but that person should come to you and share progress. And if they're not making progress against,
Meghan Houle (41:16.34)
Right? Yeah.
Lia (41:30.17)
That's their problem, right, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. No, exactly.
Meghan Houle (41:31.446)
Right. It's on you. I love that. You got to the accountability because just like coaches, just like everything, we're not doing the work for you. So someone calls you and is like, Leah, fix my life. Fix my team. Tell me, what are some of the low hanging fruit operational fixes where you're having a consult with someone or you walk into a building or a place and you're immediately like, hmm.
Lia (41:44.733)
Thank
Meghan Houle (42:01.632)
you you feel it or it's like a resounding theme. Maybe that's been coming up this year. Like Leah, like everything is like going haywire. Like where do you feel like somebody could start listening in and then maybe connecting and working with you of just like things they should be looking for or like quicker fixes. There's no quick fix, but Leah fixed our businesses. What should we be doing? Yeah.
Lia (42:06.333)
Yeah.
Lia (42:14.949)
Yeah.
Lia (42:22.011)
Yeah, but yeah, the kind of flags. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say, you know, I support kind of two general types of businesses, large companies, corporate teams around manager trainings and team operation workshops. So I do stuff around feedback, working normally, how to get that team working more effectively together, and then training on how to manage effectively.
And then small businesses, I work with that CEO or business owner or leadership team on, you know, what are the systems, SOPs, really lightweight processes to figure out that how, like I mentioned, to get work moving through the organization better. And that ends up saving you like, clients typically save about 20 hours a month with that. Now, on both sides, the biggest flag is that leadership, whether you're a middle manager or a CEO, business owner,
is way too far in the weeds and we're afraid to let go, we're afraid to delegate. And that's something that I see, it literally doesn't matter if you're a first time manager or you are an SVP working at Apple or Google, I've seen the same problems, right? And so it's not about level of seniority or expertise or tenure, it's about trusting our teams, trusting ourselves to be able to let go and really identifying what
what has to be done in a certain way versus what stuff that I do this way because I'm used to it versus what's my preferences. And that's where I love to start with teams is figuring out like what work needs to be done by who and really starting to remap things and like into their respective areas of ownership. So let's say I did this as a workshop for manager on delegating, you we would really look at, well, kind of I would have managers reflect personally on like, what are your real fears around delegating and letting go?
And a lot of that, from what I've heard, especially for middle managers is, well, if I give them half my job away, like people think, what am I doing? Right? And nobody is thinking that, but like, that's the fear, right? And then for a business owner, it's often, or a senior leader, it's a trust thing. Like if I give this away, like, I don't think this person can cut it. Or, you know, I don't really, I don't really, I'm...
Meghan Houle (44:21.9)
Right. Yeah.
Yeah, no, it's real though. Yeah.
Lia (44:40.873)
so, so deep in the weeds, I can't even stop for one second to figure out what to delegate, let alone explain it. So I'm just gonna keep being very into it myself. think for like, I think there's when you're in a large corporate organization, but still senior, you're under this sort of pressure cooker of you need to still be in the know to be able to report on what's going on even further up the chain where it can become difficult because there's a communication flow issue.
right, totally different thing, but you're still in the weeds. And so one of the biggest things and really where the team whispering comes into play is recognizing, well, where is someone getting stuck? It's usually somewhere between either like the needs of, you know, their stakeholders, their clients or their leadership. And then what is the individuals at the ground level of team thinking and how do we connect those dots?
Meghan Houle (45:08.396)
Right. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (45:35.521)
Wow, you just road mapped some pretty big strategies for anyone at any level coming in. Wow, amazing advice and so true. like, yep, yep, yep. I'm to play this podcast for every one of my clients. Well, before I let you go, let's have like a Leah vulnerability moment. What do you, what do you see that's like driving you crazy right now about your industry or like what has been a resounding theme for you where you just want to like shake the world?
Lia (45:37.309)
You
Bye.
Lia (46:00.893)
well, where do I start? Do we have two hours? No. what is just frustrating me to the whatever end of the earth is people are resistant to invest in their teams. That I, you know, I hear
Meghan Houle (46:03.604)
You're where do I start as another two hour podcast? There's some mini series actually.
Lia (46:26.309)
My team isn't performing, I'm overpaying, they're not delivering. And then when we talk about, like let's fix it. They're like, man, I don't know, it should work itself out. It's like, I wanna say it doesn't work itself out, never. All it does is gets worse, it doesn't work itself out. you know, it causes so much more money.
Meghan Houle (46:35.564)
It should work. That's a great strategy. F around and find out. It's going to work itself out.
Meghan Houle (46:46.378)
And it costs you so much more money!
Lia (46:48.859)
Right, someone recently shared this quote with me and I wrote it down. I did a podcast episode on my podcast, made it simple about it. I did a story on Instagram history about like the statement, what happens if I invest in a team member and they leave? That's where people usually have a question for me. And the flip side is what happens if you don't invest in them and they stay, right? Mic drop, but like if you think about it and you take, for example, let's say you are paying a team member $100,000. Okay, I'm just gonna use a hundred because it's an easy round number.
and that person is really not doing great, right? But you're giving them a chance, but they're kind of operating at like a 50 % productivity. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. You're having to help them out. They're having to get support from other team members. It's just like not going anywhere. You know you got to manage them out eventually, but you have too much stuff on your plate to think about that, and you don't have budget to hire someone else. Or your team said no backfills, so you're just going to deal with it.
that person at 50%, they're only doing a $50,000 job. Now I'm gonna tell you, hosting a workshop for your team, getting them some coaching, doing a program with them to really help them kind of optimize how work's being done, none of that costs $50,000. So you are always gonna be losing more on not investing. And that's just one person, right? If your whole team is dysfunctional. And so we think about this sunk cost thing.
Meghan Houle (48:08.839)
Right. Can you imagine? Yeah.
Lia (48:15.357)
Now the time it takes to manage out a low performer, especially in larger companies, it can be months, it can be years, okay? So like, have to, you know? And in parallel, we have to be trying to develop the team. Because if that person, if you're able to raise that 50 % productivity to 75, now you've recouped $25,000 and maybe that person seeing you're investing in them, maybe they get back to 100 % because they feel motivated again, right? And so,
Meghan Houle (48:22.346)
Yes, legal things, HR, yeah.
Lia (48:44.465)
there is nothing more expensive than not investing your team. Like Megan, you've asked about retention and burnout. Retention in the US alone costs a trillion dollars a year, a trillion dollars in onboarding and interviewing and lost income from having an employee not there and all these different things. I think depending on what the role is, it could cost someone one, two, three times their salary.
for not having that person, let alone your time, your team members time onboarding them, let alone the terrible message it sends if you've got a revolving door of roles. Everyone's like, what's going on that team? I'm not going to that restaurant nobody's in. You know what I mean? Like, what's up with that manager? Right? So it is, mean, like, see now I'm all like, like getting all wound up. But the idea that you would save money by not investing in your team, your team is everything. It's your whole currency.
Meghan Houle (49:21.899)
God, no, yes. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Meghan Houle (49:43.318)
Right?
Lia (49:43.387)
You got to invest in that before you invest in marketing, before you invest in ads, before you invest in anything. Everything.
Meghan Houle (49:47.304)
yeah. Big, shiny MVP things. Like it starts with your team and you know you and I again are so aligned on this. It's like same with hiring. You can put out all these juicy goals that you have, but if you don't have the right people, not enough people, the wrong person, it doesn't matter. You're not, you're not getting anywhere. And also very aligned.
Lia (49:54.045)
Yeah.
Yes.
Meghan Houle (50:07.472)
On the investment side too, even with an agency which you know, you and I, we're exterior costs, but like what is the cost of either you as a CEO trying to recruit and hire on your own? You're the most expensive recruiter that you know out there or trying to be your own team ops person when that's not your area of expertise. And I think these tasks that people think like you said, I can just do it myself or it'll go away or the ideal candidates are gonna come to me.
Lia (50:20.944)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (50:33.376)
That's just not the case. I mean, sometimes those ideal candidates are not the ones on LinkedIn. They're not the ones throwing their resumes around there. They're the high performer superstars that you're using a resource like me to like tap into and get them on the phone. And, you know, they trust me with their career path. They're like, okay, I'll talk to Megan. You know, same like with you Leah, it's just like a trusted person that has track record and credibility of like seamlessly bringing teams together.
Lia (50:39.452)
Yeah.
Lia (50:44.349)
Right.
Lia (50:49.275)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (51:02.356)
making managers more productive and effective and like building out these incredible cultures like chef's kiss when you can go to work every day and you're a leader or CEO or founder and you're not like butterflies in your stomach every day like, God, I got to deal with so-and-so or it's just that thorn in your side but you're like, we all have enough anxiety in this day and age. Like get your teams together, invest the money because in the long run you're going to spend more by investing less.
Lia (51:16.751)
Yeah.
now.
Meghan Houle (51:31.66)
That's just how it is. I love it. Mm-hmm
Lia (51:32.271)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, when I say team, I absolutely do mean hiring and onboarding is that first piece of that. I couldn't agree more. you know, even from a, you know, a legal and equity standpoint, right? Like, you know, a lot of times we think it's easier to hire someone that works just like us, that's from our same background, that, you know, we would be friends with. All those things are not the reason that you hire someone.
Meghan Houle (51:40.01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lia (51:59.229)
And why it's very important to have someone objective supporting you. And this is something I see a lot is, you know, a business owner will go against all the advice because at end of the day they think, yeah, you know, I just had a great vibe. And that person, those are the ones that don't work the most often. This one that was like, just great vibe, let me grab a beer with them. Don't hire on vibes and feels. I have that in my book.
Meghan Houle (52:04.32)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (52:16.876)
Do not hire on vibes.
Yes.
Lia (52:25.309)
I'm adding a Megan quote today to the manuscript, go back to the editor, because like, is not, that's like, no, that doesn't create inclusive hire, it doesn't create the best team, it doesn't create the best results. Those are the hires that don't end up working out is when you rushed it, you didn't onboard them, you didn't do the things that Megan's talking about, you didn't think long-term, didn't have a plan, none of those things. That's where you really can create a little bit more of that.
Meghan Houle (52:37.804)
Right.
Lia (52:54.725)
risk mitigation. Again, it's not a guarantee, but you can make it so much more likely to work out.
Meghan Houle (52:59.722)
Yeah. Well, gosh, and anyone listening in, what an amazing time to consider these investments as we head into the new year, new president in the US, all kinds of new things going on. But we keep moving forward and we obviously are, you focus on what you can control in anything in life. And I feel like jobs aren't going.
anywhere. know, people are always going to be hiring. There's always going be team things. There's always going to be development. I think the rise in leadership development courses, masterminds, as we've been a part of, and I think you've been started before I did, Leah. It's really a thing. And I think when you're investing in the right people that can come in and help you move the needle for your business at whatever level that is, it's life changing. It's game changing. I think you and I wouldn't know each other if I hadn't made an investment in myself.
Lia (53:26.972)
now.
Yeah.
Lia (53:49.105)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (53:53.782)
All the things that I've been doing and putting myself into new rooms with new people that are educating me in new ways have catapulted me. So gosh, if anyone takes anything away, how timely is this? I hope everyone goes into the show notes and clicks all of your information because even to have consultation and would love to talk about how you work, there's just so many resources that you provide. So like first and foremost, like let's go through the Leah layers. But before I like just let you go with that swan song like.
What are your thoughts on like 2025? Like what do you feel like you're gonna see as a trend? Yeah, how are we navigating this kind of like new phase for us here in the US where it's just things are back, know, people are doing all the things now. You know, I just really feel like this past couple of years have been really like we're back, we're front facing, like we're doing it, yeah.
Lia (54:44.613)
Yeah, I agree. I'm really optimistic that people will start investing in their teams end to end. I mean, I've been seeing it from a lot of interest on the corporate side. I've been seeing it, I think, in the small business of like, hey, I really want to, you know, kind of come out of the gate strong. So I'm really optimistic about that because that is your recession proof strategy. That is your, you know, or whatever. Like, that's your safeguard. And anyone that's staying ahead of the curve on really making sure
Meghan Houle (55:07.436)
Yeah.
Lia (55:14.001)
they've got the right people focused on the right things. That is your buffer around the uncertainty that we're still in the midst of. So I think first like prediction is, I think we will see a resurgence in, you know, making sure we're utilizing, we have the right people and we're utilizing them in the right way. And so for both of our work, it is a do more with less strategy, right? It truly is like having the right people is how you get more done with less resources, right?
Meghan Houle (55:36.458)
Yeah.
Lia (55:41.253)
And so mine is the same. So I feel optimistic about that. think that, you know, I do anticipate some shifts in around how we look at incentives and performance and different things as more Gen Z continues to enter the workforce. So I think that's an interesting conversation to be had around, you know, how do we motivate folks? And I'm excited about that because I think that does give people more avenues outside of pay alone.
Meghan Houle (55:58.401)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Lia (56:10.269)
Remember, pay's gotta be handled, but then there's other things outside of it. So those are two areas. And I think, know, for me, as you've said, I think on the personal side, I'm really eager to continue with, yeah, a lot of the kind of centering I do, as Megan said, I do a lot of personal development, a lot of meditation, a lot of really making sure that kind of I feel really equipped for all of whatever we face every day as entrepreneurs. It's, you know, a ton of uncertainty every single day and really investing in community and building relationships.
Meghan Houle (56:11.732)
Right. Yeah.
Lia (56:40.413)
That has been my, you know, the biggest gift that I've found is meeting people like you, having community. And I think no matter if you're working in, you know, a corporate role or an entrepreneur or a small business owner, really making sure you're getting your head above water and connecting with other people on a regular basis is like, I could not recommend a better strategy from a personal and professional side.
Meghan Houle (57:03.564)
Right. Yeah. Having people that you trust, that you're building these super meaningful relationships that are saying your name in a room of opportunity and you're getting leads and all the things because people know what you do and you are so clear. Like your brand messaging is like chef's kiss so clear, but I would say anyone struggling with that who's an entrepreneur that's in the service side, Lee and I with our services, although you have a few books and talks and things like that, but.
Lia (57:08.614)
Yeah.
Lia (57:12.956)
Yeah.
Lia (57:18.343)
Yeah.
Lia (57:26.673)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (57:32.348)
If someone doesn't know how you can solve their problem, there cannot be any confusion in there. So I just love that. I love your messaging. I love all they put out. love the confidence that you have. I know you've helped so many amazing teams. So give us, yeah, the Leah layer. So we have books, you have your TED talk. What are some of like the ways
Lia (57:35.687)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Lia (57:50.79)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (57:54.188)
from high level, like bring you into the organization to maybe just getting to know Leah and like starting off and then saying like, hey, I got to work with this individual. Talk to us about all of your amazing offerings, my friend. Yes.
Lia (58:03.278)
Yeah.
Lia (58:08.157)
So I think the first way to plug in is to listen to my podcast, Managing Made Simple, because I do share a lot of the strategies that I talked about today. I dive in, you know, in detail and feedback around recognition, around, you conflict, all these different things and really relate it to whether you're a corporate manager or a small business owner so that because at the end of the day, we're all dealing with people. so Managing Made Simple is the podcast and that that really has a wealth of information that you can apply to your teams right away.
And then from there, I love to work with folks hands-on because I think, like I said, listening to it's one, but having someone really come in there and get in there with you and really help, I think really has the best chance at lasting results. And so again, I do workshops with teams around manager trainings, team operations, kind team dynamics, really how to motivate your teams, get more out of your teams, and then also supporting small businesses and business owners around.
streamlining their team operations. And so one of the main things that I do is create a team operations playbook for a business. And this really maps out that how we talked about, you what are our priorities? How do we connect all the roles to those? How do we make decisions and delegate? How do we track work? How do we measure performance? I put that all together in a playbook because that gives you that anchor to set expectations around. Hey, that's the playbook. Like it gives everyone the same language around how things get done in this team. And that's what allows businesses to save.
about 20 hours a month because we're not just guessing. We know what to work on. We're done with something. You know, we're not having our meetings go on forever because we have clear agendas. So that playbook has been, you know, kind of the most fun thing that I get to work on that has such immediate concrete results that can save folks time instantly. And then I have my book, The Unstoppable Team, my previous book Unstuck. And then coming out in January, as I mentioned, is the new manager's playbook and
Meghan Houle (59:39.501)
huh.
Meghan Houle (59:43.34)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (59:53.526)
Love it.
Lia (01:00:03.737)
I'm so excited for that again, that has just tons of tools and resources for truly for any manager, but especially helpful for a manager that's just getting started.
Meghan Houle (01:00:13.62)
Yeah. Well, and I feel like you have been doing too lot of in-person, like speaking engagements, like getting on stage and continuing to kind of share, or just feel like either your TED Talks or your panels, I mean, that's a wealth of advice. So anyone looking for a powerhouse female to talk about all things teams and leadership management, like hire Leah, go find her. I've spent a lot of time with her IRL, so I can tell you she is legit.
Lia (01:00:18.01)
Yeah.
Lia (01:00:33.149)
you
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (01:00:43.26)
amazing, so passionate. I'm so excited. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of us. Like, I feel like we've, you navigate a lot of highs and lows every year, but I think you're right. There's so much value in the connection, the community of the people you surround yourself with that are doing also amazing things and lifting each other up and inspiring each other as well. So you so inspire me.
Lia (01:00:48.305)
Thank you so much.
Meghan Houle (01:01:09.546)
I can't wait to see what's next for you. So thank you so much for sharing this amazing wisdom. And then we have to play on something IRL too. So stay tuned.
Lia (01:01:11.389)
Thank you.
Thank you. yeah, I know. Like, this is a seed planting of collaborations to come.
Meghan Houle (01:01:22.508)
Yes. Well, I always say in our podcast, what's one thing you want to manifest to come true? And then it's so crazy going back and listening to episodes from years ago from people that have been on that are like, I'm doing all the things and they are doing all the things. So there's a lot of freaking power in saying something out loud and then taking aligned action as we have to.
Lia (01:01:42.137)
Yeah. I mean, I want to manifest you and me putting a program together for like managing teams end to end from hiring all the way through operations because like, I mean, I admire your work so much as well and we have such shared brain state around it. And I think as we talked about today, this is any business's superpower to be able to unlock that. Like it really is the differentiator between, you know, just kind of humming along and breaking through whatever plateau it is.
Meghan Houle (01:01:47.668)
Yes.
Lia (01:02:12.093)
for a company of any size, honestly. So I am just like, I'm manifesting we are going to build this game changing thing and all of you listening, you heard it here first.
Meghan Houle (01:02:23.34)
And Leah knows some other things I've been doing behind the scenes. So we are going to do all the things. I mean, what an amazing investment of having like a well-oiled machine with somebody who can access like A plus talent and then someone that can get them in there and help your team run so smoothly and just feel good every day about what they're doing. So I love it. my God. Well, thank you so much, my friend. And everyone go check out Leah, go listen to her podcast and we'll see you soon.
Lia (01:02:26.013)
That's right. Yes.
Lia (01:02:45.617)
Thank you so much for having me.
Meghan Houle (01:02:52.953)
Yay. And I feel like, hold on, end session for all