Pivot With Purpose Season 6 Episode 23 Shira Lazar Full Transcript
Meghan Houle (00:02.274)
Shira, hello, my friend. Welcome to the Pivot With Purpose podcast. It's such an honor to have you here. How you doing?
Shira (00:09.615)
I'm great. I'm happy we finally made this work.
Meghan Houle (00:12.43)
Me too. I have to tell you, you're one of my favorite new friends for this year. It's 2024 guys for anyone listening in the future. But Shira and I met, shout out to Cherub and our lovely Jacqueline Johnson for bringing us together in New York City. And I know, you know, I feel like you and I have like a really cool similar energy and birds of a feather as the saying goes. So thanks for chatting with me and just digging into your background further, Sen Sen. You're so amazing.
Shira (00:16.531)
You're a sweetheart.
Meghan Houle (00:39.384)
doing so many amazing things for mental health and the digital space and creator economy and all of it. yeah, it's been a pleasure having you in my universe. So thanks for taking on my friendship. Yeah.
Shira (00:51.353)
No, I mean, it is similar energy just in terms of communication and responsiveness and getting things done and being understanding. So definitely good vibes. And I mean, I'm amazed at what you're doing too. Similar to me, a bunch of different things and your skill set goes a long way.
Meghan Houle (01:12.216)
Same with you too. And I am in awe too of just your on camera and your hosting, which is like hashtag goals for me of like continuing to get more front-facing. And I know we can get into it, but you've just led so many cool events and are just really involved. And I don't know, I have to become your travel buddy for some of these things, like stay tuned there, but tell us, yay. But I always love to start off with, tell us about the here and now, like where are we catching you in this moment?
Shira (01:32.362)
Bye!
Meghan Houle (01:38.92)
What are you loving to do right now? What are some of the projects you're working on or what are you up to before we dive into some early career highlights for you? Yeah.
Shira (01:47.751)
Yeah, in this moment, well, I am like, let's stop and think. I'm looking at a lemon tree right now. Did you record?
Meghan Houle (01:52.94)
I know you're like, where do I start? Beautiful.
But for which record? yeah, we're good, yeah. We're good, girl.
Shira (02:01.687)
You press record. yeah, it's recording. I like, I'm looking at a lemon tree right now. So was like, where am I? No, I'm so I, you know, there's, feel like I'm constantly in transition. But at the same time, I do feel very grounded in what I want to do and who I am. And also open to the possibilities that I don't maybe know and see right now. So I think with
with my company, which trending, you know, I'm finally in a place, a better place financially, like, and we'll get into this, but I've definitely had a lot of highs and a lot of lows and last year was really difficult. And so really this year was a lot of fixing and a lot of being on defense. Like, yeah, I guess I'm really bad with sports analogies, but on the defensive side.
where every time I felt like I was finished with dealing with something that was maybe a bit stressful or a bit of a challenge, like another hit. Literally, I have someone who works on the operations side with me and he literally said, you just keep getting punched, but you're dealing with it. And it's just like, it is a lot at the same time. I think that that's where it comes back to how I've evolved, right? And...
Meghan Houle (03:14.35)
Wow.
Shira (03:26.275)
really knowing deep down that while these things like when it hits, you're like, what in the actual F like, are really this again, like why you know, we get in that mode of saying like, hold up, slow down, like, you're going to get through it, like, what is the immediate next step? Let's not go five steps ahead into doomsday. Right? So that has been big for me.
Meghan Houle (03:46.584)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shira (03:52.081)
But I ultimately also like looking back and seeing how far I've gone, even if there's still obstacles is really important. you know, saying, okay, now we're maybe a bit cashflow positive or like, you know, able to pay backs and debts. Like, how do we grow now? Like I'm in a place of like, okay, how do we grow? And really being strategic about it. And then for my personal brand, it's really about, again, what do I represent and continue to hunker down on that?
What does that mean in terms of the content I create? I love creating content. I've been a broadcaster in traditional media too. And so what does that mean all around? And what does that consistency mean? What are the formats? Like, where do I see money going and moving? And how do I make sure I'm tapping into that and showing who I can be at the level I know I can be?
And, and so a lot of times that isn't like, okay, well, why aren't these things coming to me? means for me, at least really evaluating where I'm at and like, what is in my control that I can create to get more of that? So it means like fixing my speaking reel or, tweaking my website or maybe launching a new series or looking the formats and content on my socials. And I'm, know, always looking at those things and tweaking them, you know, at least including towards the end of the year, going to the new year and.
you know, each quarter. And then finally, I mean, this is a long-winded answer, but really leaning into mental health and wellbeing as it relates to these spaces that we exist in and taking care of myself, as well as figuring out like, what do we all really need and can I help with that somehow through the platforms I have and the work I'm doing?
to really move the needle. And so, we launched this Creators for Mental Health initiative. We've had two pop-up events, one in LA and one in New York, looking at more cities and looking at how we can actually grow this. So those are all those things that are on my mind. Well, yeah, constantly getting new business and having discovery meetings and calls because even if you have your projects you're working on, for me,
Shira (06:13.319)
things pop up when you least expect it through serendipitous encounters.
Meghan Houle (06:16.558)
Yeah. And you want to make sure you're cognizant of the pipeline, kind of what's next. then you actively have to kind of go out and I'm sure do the pitches. But then there are amazing things that come our way. And I hear you on the hits that keep coming. I feel like it's a resounding theme for 2024, which I know we were chatting about earlier before we jumped on the podcast. And it takes a lot of energy to hold that space when you are starting to kind of get into a victim mentality. And rightfully so. I always say like, feel the field.
but then at some point you can't let it sit. And I think when it sits and festers, like that's just when everything falls apart. So we'll get into that further, but I love that you, you know, to hear you have so many really cool things going on. And I guess in diving into your incredible journey, you've been at the forefront of digital media for over 20 years, launching what's trending in 2021, which you tell me, but I feel like that's, 2011, sorry. Just kidding.
Shira (07:10.355)
2011.
Shira (07:14.341)
Yeah, over a decade is gonna while, but I love that you make me feel younger.
Meghan Houle (07:15.242)
my numbers. I'm like, hi, Megan. Well, we both got two decades of experience. So yes, we love it. But really, you that put you on the map, but you were already ahead of the curve when it came to creator economy and social media. So what sparked that initial passion for this space and how did you recognize the shift towards the creator economy so early on?
Shira (07:39.495)
Yeah, it was because I wasn't getting the jobs consistently that I wanted to get. So I was trying to audition for E and MTV and getting close, but just not getting those jobs. And so while I was constantly working on, know, updating my reel and doing more things, I started meeting people who had websites at the time or, and at the time it was Wire Image, which
Meghan Houle (07:45.18)
huh.
Shira (08:07.377)
is with Getty, it's like a big celebrity photo service and they were launching their video division. And so for me, I was taking those kind of, I guess what people would call them odd jobs, but it would get me more experience. And then while I was doing them, I would meet other people who had the companies like that. And I became this go-to for, I would say digital companies, websites at the time, very early on that needed video and...
I guess for me, also connected to a lot of these people because I myself had a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit. I grew up with entrepreneurs around me. And for me, it was all about just continuing to stay busy, I guess. Like that was my sanity and less waiting around. And I was able to do that in working with these companies. And then before I knew it, it became like...
these websites and these digital companies became the next thing. And then in LA, because I was the one person doing it all and talking about it, as this space and industry continued to grow, I became a default person to talk to about it. And then I was kind of like in the way, basically I was part of the wave. You're like in it, like I didn't think there was a wave until the wave started and I said,
I guess I'm in a wave, right? And so that was really cool. And again, now it becomes like you're part of this group of people and you could look back and say, you know, knowing people for 15 years in an industry, even though it's kind of just starting to get traction for some folks. And it makes it easier to get work done and jobs. And you could kind of lean on the fact that you've been around and like your expertise and your experience having seen
really and been part of the history of it. And so yeah, that's what led me into digital early. again, I guess I didn't realize that it was a thing until again, I started just seeing more traction. And as people that I was talking to about these things that didn't get it, you know, I was vlogging with my phone, I was joining Twitter, like a lot of people didn't get these things at the time in like 2008.
Meghan Houle (10:24.078)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shira (10:24.261)
seven even, know, really early. But then as those people a years later started saying, she was the first one to tell me about this. Like she's always early. I started seeing a lot of that. And I started realizing, I guess I have a knack for this. And this is my thing, you know, and then whenever I would get a traditional media job and then get fired or something would happen because it's fickle. I would always find myself back into in these spaces.
Meghan Houle (10:32.366)
Yes.
Shira (10:53.137)
where I would be back with the digital folks, back with the founders and the startups and where it was really all about your enthusiasm. It wasn't about necessarily starting in the mail room or working your way up, or there's definitely still a bit of politics to any industry and incestuousness in a way. But in many ways, it was about you showing up and caring and people catch on to that.
They like being around the energy, including entrepreneurs. And that I had that, you know, I think that in other industries and you're in luxury in this space, like that could be a bit off putting sometimes when someone's so into something, not when you are a startup or have a company, you want to be around the energy. You need to be around that energy to survive. And I was like the perfect person to be part of that.
Meghan Houle (11:41.878)
Yes. Yeah. Like the ultimate hype woman for sure.
Shira (11:47.035)
Yeah, I'm a height, like yeah. And I'm also like wanting the best results. And I understand what it's like. Well, now I do, but I think I just got it. And so it was a bit of the right timing and opportunity and the readiness that I had, like my background, both personally and professionally to lean into a space like this.
Meghan Houle (11:52.557)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (12:09.432)
Yeah, well, that's amazing. And what's really inspiring is how you've continued to evolve over time from what's trending and now, as you were mentioning, running your own initiative, Creators for Mental Health. What would you say has been the most pivotal moment in your career, Shira, that really has defined your path?
Shira (12:30.903)
probably when I got, you know, could say like getting nominated for an Emmy or like, winning awards, which definitely helps. But I think the most pivotal thing that shifted my path was when I got fired by CBS news. So what turning launched with CBS news, I was working there for a few years as a contractor. And when we launched, we were with them and then.
Meghan Houle (12:38.552)
Yes, yes. Yes.
Shira (12:58.394)
We had something that happened with a team member and it created a very quick kerfuffle to say the least. And we quickly basically split overnight and it was pretty devastating for me because it very much felt out of my control. Although there were some definitely lessons in that. And, you know, all my hard work, I was in my late twenties and was very much top of the world. Like I had been on that.
that hockey stick moment of my life and career where everything was finally coming together. And we were moving from like a six figure contract to then a seven figure contract with a new brand. And I had a billboard in Times Square, like literally top of the world. And then like overnight, everything fell apart and it was, yeah, it was completely heartbreaking, devastating. And I had to really pick myself up to continue after that. And
Meghan Houle (13:41.102)
Yeah, you did. huh.
Shira (13:55.025)
I think that definitely informs everything moving forward. It informed my work now as I deal with, you know, mental health and personal growth and informed how I approach being a business owner and entrepreneur. never really looked at myself as that until this moment when we went off on our own and started building as a business. took me many years to claim that. And also,
it became like that was the story of being a digital media entrepreneur and like, and being in these spaces was that you are on your own, you do own your own IP. And again, if we'd continued with them, I'm not against, you know, that path if it happened, but it would have been a different story, right? And so in many ways, I, you know, you have to have gratitude for what you go through. And there were lessons learned while I still, there is a lot of hurt. It's like, again, when you,
Meghan Houle (14:39.202)
Right? Yeah.
Shira (14:50.419)
feel like you're gonna get married to someone and they break your heart in a way. And you're like, well, obviously everything else happened for a reason. There's still some hurt there and things like definitely traumas and PTSD. But again, get to use that to support others. you know, it felt I definitely did have my own obstacles and challenges leading up to that but
Meghan Houle (14:52.942)
Yeah. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (15:07.01)
Right, yes.
Shira (15:14.535)
That definitely was a very pivotal moment that opened up a lot of things from my past, even that I hadn't felt and dealt with. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (15:20.344)
Hmm. Well, so what, yeah, what was that journey like of, you know, getting that horrible day where it's like, I'm sorry, you're, you know, we're no longer available, no longer needed, which is when you're kind of working within your segment for CBS. And then was that the, okay. wow. Okay. Okay. Got it. Yeah.
Shira (15:33.125)
No, I had my whole company, a whole show with them. It wasn't even a segment. No, it was just our what's trending and launched with them. But luckily I did own the IP. So when we separated and they severed ties with us, and me, we went off on our own and continued the company. So it was a very unique situation in that way. Like I'm grateful for that. But yeah, I mean, it wasn't just a day it was based like it would I realized and looking back at it like I, I
Meghan Houle (15:44.525)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (15:47.886)
Got it, got it. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Shira (16:03.387)
I had a lot of support from my co-founder at the time was my boyfriend and my family and friends and community. And really everyone showed up, even like professionally, like people that we were on their platforms, like gave us back our usernames. you we didn't have access to anything like that. And everyone kind of understood that we were not really treated properly in the situation and it could have been dealt with better. So really people were amazing.
But that said, I think that for me it took a long time to get my confidence and self-worth back. And I still deal with a lot of anxiety around making mistakes and the repercussions around that. And so it definitely, it's something I still deal with actually. And then, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, for me, it's like not like a boogeyman. It's like, no, I actually dealt with like,
Meghan Houle (16:52.92)
Same. Yeah. Yeah.
Shira (17:01.103)
a huge like punishment of my mistake, you know? So it's not like, so it informs how I deal with my team members. It informs how I show up like myself behind the scenes. And like, it's something I continue to work through of like, again, as things pop up and obstacles, not being reactive and not being like thinking five steps ahead because of my own fears of what could happen in the worst case scenario. And so
Meghan Houle (17:04.119)
Mmm, cheers. Yeah.
Shira (17:30.693)
rebuilding that muscle for myself. then on the other side of it, it really forced me just to lean into my power and who I was and what I know. And partially, there's a lot of confidence that comes from that as well, even though you're still or I'm still dealing with my own self-worth issues simultaneously. Or like,
Meghan Houle (17:55.724)
Right? Yeah.
Shira (17:57.085)
things that I wouldn't say are self-worth issues and then they pop up and you're like, that's because of control. That's because of devaluing yourself. Like it doesn't seem as obvious, but ultimately it's actions and behavior that stems from that. And you're like, and that could be because that scenario or probably even deeper from before that.
Meghan Houle (18:01.08)
Yep.
Meghan Houle (18:15.234)
Well, in launching this Creators for Mental Health, which brings much needed mental health tools to the creator economy, I mean, you've talked about it a little bit, what is leading you now to work through some of those things that come up in prioritizing your mental health now in your work? Yeah.
Shira (18:33.011)
Yeah. Well, yeah, a years ago, basically, I started an initiative or an organization called Peace Inside Live with a friend of mine who is a mindfulness coach and executive coach and meditation teacher and all that. And we had done a pretty life changing trip to Everest Base Camp in 2019. And that was a year where, yeah, that was amazing. Let me know if any of you ever want to go. Let's do it.
Meghan Houle (18:56.76)
Yeah.
Sign me up. Let's do it. Yeah.
Shira (19:04.599)
And so that was, you know, 2019 again, I was having a difficult year from a breakup to company revenue had gone from like seven figures to basically nothing. And it was a mess. And I again found myself in this place of like, things are out of my control, surprise, surprise. And I'm feeling shitty about myself. You know?
And so that, you know, is always a reminder, like, what do get to work on? You know, the only thing you can control in those moments is yourself. And so coming back to you and the rest will come, as they say. So went on this trip with her, started co-creating and trying to bring some of this work into my content, not what's trending, but my personal brand and content. so, you know, started doing that, started getting really inspired and empowered around it.
realizing it wasn't too cringy and I could do it. And then during COVID, we launched Peace Inside Live and we started out, and I'm telling this story for reason, because it led to the Creators for Mental Health Initiative. We started doing wellness classes virtually with facilitators we knew from around the world. It was donation-based during COVID. We had a few thousand people through our sessions and then went into corporate wellness.
and saw some success there. But ultimately even that there was a plateau to it because of just, yeah, changes of budgets, even though everyone wants to prioritize wellness. And then I guess it was this aha moment of like, of what I've been trying to figure out, which is how do I bring all the things that I love together? Because until then I was still doing my creator work and emerging technology work and like looking into AI and all this stuff as one thing and then my wellness stuff is another.
And then I really realized like, well, I've been going through this. This is what inspired my journey, but I know other creators are going through this. Like, what if we did an event for creators instead of just a general wellness event, right? And so, yeah, we did that in June and we got some sponsors and did another one. And as I mentioned, and yeah, we're just starting to see a lot of traction around it. And I think for me, it brings...
Shira (21:26.397)
together my two lived experiences and passions and things that I'm finally finding like the intersection around because the creator economy is built on the backs of creators. It's a billion dollar industry and yet we don't see the upside necessarily. And if anything, our mental health is also impacted by it because in order to keep up and do all these things, it just takes a lot. And yet there's no support around it from.
Meghan Houle (21:47.704)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Shira (21:53.063)
these companies, these platforms, management companies, influencer marketing, there's nothing, you know? And so can we create safe spaces to talk about these issues and help creators and creatives gain tools to support themselves around burnout, around emotional resilience, around mindfulness, know, self-worth value.
above and beyond these things that are external to them. And it's very personal, obviously. so I can speak to you because it's something. Yeah, and I do. so that's, and I know I'm not alone because I've been around others firsthand that are dealing with this and it has led to addiction. It has led to, deeper, darker places, like some to attempt suicide or even lead to that.
Meghan Houle (22:26.868)
Of course, well that's why you're so equipped to do this, Shira. Amen. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, no.
Shira (22:51.875)
you know, something needs to be done. And so I'm just super excited about this. And right now, again, it's very simple, but like, my hope is to lean into more what that means from a, even a policy side, like, are we, you know, we're a new form of small business. What does that mean in terms of protections? And how do we make sure we're getting health insurance and discounts on therapy? Like all this, these are some basic things beyond like a
Meghan Houle (23:18.978)
Right?
Shira (23:20.975)
a cold plunge at an event or like yoga.
Meghan Houle (23:23.102)
please don't put me in a cold plunge. I can't my body's already in state of Strava and Shaw shock. They say that I mean again, like people are gonna come for me now. Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah.
Shira (23:30.695)
No, does. No, I love a good cold lunch. Cold lunch helps me with the system, by the way, but I'm just saying like, I think it's great to be able to, know, to, the more we have these types of events, whether mine or others and normalize these, the better, okay? Don't get me wrong. I just think that in the end, at the end of the day, we all end up alone in our beds at night, maybe, or with someone thinking about our lives and where we're at and who we are as people. And that could be a very lonely process. So, kind of make it less lonely.
Meghan Houle (23:41.088)
Yes. Yes.
Meghan Houle (23:54.51)
Hell yeah. Yes. I mean, no, you're doing freaking amazing work and I feel that through relief, like laying down and I...
I try all these techniques, clear your mind. And then I'm like, in 1997, this happened to me. I'm like, why am I thinking about? But like, there's things that happen and we go back, our minds go back or like a terrible work experience. I'm like, I'm not even dealing with that now, but it's in our subconscious and whatever. I mean, as you were mentioning, the creator economy is known for those high highs, low lows, me included in some of my agency work and severe burnout, truly. I mean, you work closely with those creators and really help to provide mental health tools.
what would you say are some practical strategies you found that really helped creators manage their mental wellbeing? And then I'm gonna grill you on like the professional corporate people. But from a creator point of view, like what are some strategies that you found that really helped?
Shira (24:45.671)
Yeah.
Shira (24:52.325)
Yeah, for me, it's creating an evening and morning routine to support me as I end the day and begin the day, because a lot of times we end up ending it on our phones, and this is for everyone, and like starting our phones and starting it with that energy that is outside of us and in us being reactive to something versus responding and leading the day, right? It's leading us. So that is really important. And we all have different ones. Like for me, I need
Meghan Houle (25:04.11)
huh.
Meghan Houle (25:16.27)
Yep. Yeah.
Shira (25:22.811)
I need a certain amount of of sleep. Like you need to know what's good for you. What is your positive coping strategy, right? Like what, you know, write this down, you know, in an ideal day, not just like what's your favorite, what's your ideal schedule or ideal day. That's really good to know because then you start seeing glaring gaps and like how do you take steps to create that? But then also what do you do that makes you feel great?
like noticing those things. And I started noticing, yeah, sleep for me was a game changer. clearly there's some basics, like, you know, making sure I traded and eating enough and in a healthy way. And for me going outside and moving, these are just like basic things, but I need to schedule it in, or I need to build it into my routines. And so it's not going to just happen. You need to build it in like a meeting sometimes and do it baby steps. Like.
Meghan Houle (26:07.48)
Yeah, yeah.
Shira (26:15.407)
I think we tend to, you know, like whether resolutions or big goals, like do everything at once, you might add one thing a week or a month, and then you start stacking those things. So I think that's really important. also think, yeah, building out a schedule of when you shoot, when you edit, when you post is really important. And then if you can, getting support around that or like figuring out which things you like and which things you don't like.
And the things you don't like, what can you do within your resources that you have? That could be getting an assistant that understands how to help you with those things or talking to your manager or someone on the, like whoever you're working with to say, these are the gaps I have. Like, do you have any ideas for support? But for me, my anxieties were about uploading. I had a lot of anxiety for some reason around uploading and
the caption, the this, like I tend to overthink it. Even when I post it, I'll be like, I forgot to add that or that should have been in it. Like I had this post uploading guilt or regret. So a lot of times it helps. A lot of times, yeah. Like a lot of times when it's not everyone, like, so what I did is I got someone originally she was my intern. She was in college. She's now a professional.
Meghan Houle (27:25.614)
I mean, I can't even imagine. I go back and I edit all my things and I'm terrible, but like, I can't even imagine. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Shira (27:41.809)
and I pay her per hour, but I have someone, works with me and we basically, and I wouldn't suggest this, but ideally you meet once a week or, and you could either bulk shoot or schedule out and work with them on a calendar. And then you, they could even put in sample captions and you could approve and like she uploads for me, not always, but I try to have her do it most of the time so that.
and not on every platform. there's certain platforms I'm doing it. But I would say 50 % of the time or so she's doing the upload and it's helpful because I'll maybe be on calls or meetings. And so I'm not stressing about this thing I missed and didn't do and I had to push again. So that was huge for me. And then starting to look at your personal brand again, as a business. if you if you have a business and you would do these things like, yeah, you would hire a social media manager, you would, you know, maybe if you weren't just doing yourself,
or you would have these things, would have meetings looking at data, you would have meetings like looking out at the quarter and like, what are your goals and what can you do to get to those? Like you need to be looking at your personal brand like that, because it's not gonna happen on its own. And ultimately, if you want you to be a business, you need to approach it like a business. So those are all those things that I would do off the bat, those three things and those like, well, the two,
last two were pretty tactical. For me, that helps my mental health because it makes me feel like I'm doing something, I'm being proactive. it's, yeah, it's leading to results, whether it be good or bad results, it's least something I could look at versus just doing nothing.
Meghan Houle (29:28.332)
Yeah. absolutely. I and I think I love your advice, all of that, and going back to booking in time for you. I mean, it's so hard to like be able to sit. I always say this. I'm like, I could sit at this computer for three days. And I know, Shara, the days where I'm like, I don't get outside or, you know, I don't, I like want to like rip somebody's head off or just lay on the floor and like cry. And I'm like, this is not life. You know, so we have to prioritize us. Like, I just freaking love that. Like get outside, get fresh air, book it in.
Shira (29:45.488)
the same thing.
Meghan Houle (29:57.41)
you know, make it a ritual, make it a habit, start small. I love all of that. And for professionals, like on the corporate side, right, for those who sometimes schedules are dictated by others because that's how it is, you know, face this high level of stress and burnout. What advice do you have for balancing their mental health with career demands? And how do feel like companies can really step up and support their team's wellbeing? Mm-hmm. Yes.
Shira (30:01.807)
And yeah.
Shira (30:07.397)
Yeah.
Shira (30:21.851)
Yeah, no, it's interesting because that is a different thing. you're, you're, it's true. Your schedule is dictated. well, I definitely think then you need to even be more proactive in creating time for yourself. Right. So what does that mean on the weekends or after work or before work? Right. And it doesn't need to be perfect. Like, I think we have this idea of why didn't do it today? Like wellness isn't supposed to make you more stressed out. If it is, then it's actually, you know, it's contributing harm, but like how
Meghan Houle (30:27.841)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (30:49.102)
You're like, not the purpose.
Shira (30:51.047)
How do you give yourself that grace and space, right? And so maybe you have your ideal scenario, but knowing you're not gonna hit it and that's okay. And I would say, again, that goes back to, you know, whether you're working from home or doing, you know, working in office, like I love, and maybe it's a bit unconventional, like walking meetings, right? Or like taking a walk while you have a meeting, including if it's with someone you work with.
Meghan Houle (31:12.861)
Okay.
Shira (31:19.805)
So you're not just sitting at your desk, right? The whole time. Or maybe if you are doing a zoom, do it from outside or you know, if you can do that, I think I really think we need to normalize like not being just on zoom at our desks 24 seven. I felt like there was an opening for that during COVID. And then we got back to, where are you? Like, and if you're not at your desk in an office, you're doing it wrong. It's so bad. It's like,
Meghan Houle (31:43.15)
God, it's like so stressful, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Shira (31:47.387)
we should be able to take a call or a zoom while on a walk. it is, and I don't know why we were okay with that during COVID, but not now because of anything, we're still in similar situations, not being able to leave our desk. Like I don't get it. And I think that at least, know, as a leader, if you are a founder or you are in a place to lead and build this out for your team, I do think normalizing like when should you be on camera?
There are meetings that that should happen. And when is it okay not to be on camera and sending that tone for the team of saying, I want you to be focused and all that. But if you haven't gone outside all day and you're having back to our calls, please go outside and take a call on a walk, right? If you don't need to be on camera. As long, and if you have your notes or this or that, use your own reason in doing that.
Meghan Houle (32:43.864)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shira (32:46.371)
I think that's really important. And I think for leaders also baking and saying, you know, and I'm even learning to do this at a small business level, you know, whether it be weekly or monthly one-on-ones with your team to check in, to see how they're doing. you know, I've talked to other general managers and CEOs from, much bigger companies and they do weeklies, or biweekly where, they, yeah, they check in so that things don't build up and then it becomes even
worse situation. And a lot of times people just need to vent and share, but also making them feel like there's action out of the call, right? Like, what are we going to do? And a lot of times checking in and making sure like if you have the budget, yeah, are you providing beyond health insurance? Like, are there discounts for teletherapy or, you know, therapy? Like, are you checking in with your team members around that?
and making sure they have those resources and they know that that's there. And like, are you encouraging them if they have a therapy session that they, you know, that they could take it maybe during the day if they need to? Because again, like taking a therapy session at six or 7pm at night is also like exhausting. So I'm not against and I do it. I take, I mean, it's not ideal because you could be crying and then having to take a meeting after, but
Meghan Houle (33:54.446)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (33:59.086)
You're exhausted, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Meghan Houle (34:07.32)
Right, yeah.
Shira (34:09.393)
Like I think normalizing these things that these are things that are needed that make us better. Right. I think is really important. And, you know, making sure people know like that if they're not feeling good or they're feeling sad, one, like, what can we do about this? But ultimately, like if this isn't the right environment for you or them, then like, you know, there needs to be a conversation around that. Right.
Meghan Houle (34:14.36)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (34:36.494)
Right.
Shira (34:38.432)
these are consensual spaces and that you should never feel like a prisoner of your job, even though obviously money is needed and you have responsibilities. I think that those are like really big kind of overarching discussions that we need to have. And if you're gonna decide to stay somewhere, how are you gonna make it work for you? Right? And a lot of times that is about shifting, okay, I'm here.
Meghan Houle (34:53.582)
Yeah, yeah.
Meghan Houle (34:59.352)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shira (35:03.867)
You know, I'm grateful, I'm getting the money, I need this right now if I am gonna pivot. So what do I need to do to enjoy this? It's not gonna be rainbows and butterflies. What do I need to do? Do I need to do a gratitude bus daily? Do I need to check in with my boss or other team members? Yeah, do I need to take more walks outside while I have a call? Do I need to make sure that I take a lunch and not schedule something? Am I like,
Meghan Houle (35:12.652)
Right, I love that. Yeah.
Yeah.
Shira (35:32.657)
These are all self-awareness questions. Like, am I taking on more responsibilities that no one has asked of me? Am I worried about things that are not my responsibility? Like, again, these are all things that happen. And maybe you realize, like, you know, again, the saying, mind your own business. Mind your own business. Like, think as perfectionists and not just perfectionists, but...
Meghan Houle (35:40.696)
Right. Yeah.
Shira (36:02.301)
people that like doing a good job. tend to, and if you're not the boss, yeah, and you're like seeing what everyone is doing and you're like, ooh, look at, and you want to tell your boss about this or you want to do it you, it's like really not your responsibility because that just creates more stress for yourself. So again, like I had to tell this to my employee recently, who's one of those who notices everything. And I'm really grateful for that, but I'm also like, that's not your job, you know?
Meghan Houle (36:04.216)
Yeah, we stress ourselves out.
We sure do. Yeah.
Shira (36:32.279)
Your job isn't to notice how everyone like, feel free to tell me and it's my job to either talk to them or if they don't want to talk to me about it, that's also okay.
Meghan Houle (36:43.17)
Yeah. Love that. Not my job. I feel like I was like in an era of saying that to candidates. And that's such great advice because I think we get worried on so many levels and then we're worried about every mail. So it's like, if it's not your job, release it. Have good communication internally. No, I love all of your advice and so much more to do and share there. mean, a lot of companies I work with provide now, which I love to talk about like
wellness days for like volunteer days or actual wellness days or give you like a stipend to use on like a personal appointment or whatnot. So I mean like we have more to do but I think some companies are recognizing some are better than others in terms of benefits but definitely bigger conversations to have but I think that you shared a lot of advice of what we can kind of control on our own. And then with that I mean I know speaking which is what you do and are so incredible with all these huge conferences you're
part of like South by Southwest and talking about emerging tech, their creator economy and mental health. What do you think is the most important message that's being overlooked in both tech and the corporate wellness space right now? Yeah.
Shira (37:51.124)
Yeah, I think we're relying too much on HR and these like health insurance packages to like that's enough. And I think that that that kind of goes actually into what you just shared, even though we were wrapping up that part. I do think there's a gap in terms of the experiences like a lot of times.
Meghan Houle (37:54.866)
Mmm.
Meghan Houle (38:00.746)
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Meghan Houle (38:08.236)
Yeah, no, keep it going. Yeah.
Shira (38:15.311)
ideas and concepts, it's not just about knowing them, but immersing yourself in them. And that's where wellness experiences or having a speaker or having someone come to the space virtually or IRL helps. It bridges that gap between like the things that you know on a cerebral level and then integrating it. And then even leading into maybe you getting support deeper using these, the tools that the company is providing, whether it be insurance or otherwise, right? I think there's a huge gap because
you might not realize you have a problem or maybe you think you can go at it alone and you're not going to lean into that. Or you don't want to because of stigmas. And so in creating more immersive experiences around it, it becomes a bridge. And I think that more companies need to do that and also work with their teams on it. like ask them, what did they want? What would they attend? What would be valuable to them?
The one issue we felt from a lot of companies from doing with Peace Inside Live, our corporate stuff, we were getting great feedback on the experiences we created, but then on the other side, for some people, depending on the company, it created more stress because ultimately they felt like if they missed an hour of work, they were behind. So that also though, if someone's missing one hour of work and it's going to be detrimental, like it says a lot to...
Meghan Houle (39:31.568)
yeah, yeah.
Meghan Houle (39:38.102)
We can fix that somehow, but that's heavy. Yeah. Yeah.
Shira (39:40.56)
Yeah, like what is going on that you know, you can't take a lunch. And I even say this like, I try to practice what I preach. It is hard because I have a very small company and not a lot of money. But I still, you know, I say to my team, if you can't take a day off, like something's wrong with this process. Like you need to have go to people to fill in. Like if our business goes sideways because we're off for one day or one week of stuff, then something's wrong.
Even at a small business level, that's even harder because everyone is needed for the workflow and process. People are relied on even more than a big business in a way. Like one person leaving a three-person business can be detrimental. But I even have to challenge myself with these things.
Meghan Houle (40:25.088)
No, it's true. mean a lot of missed things. No, totally. Yeah. Yeah.
Shira (40:35.571)
And people should be able to take time off. People should be able to take sick days. People should be able to take vacations and not feel bad. And that comes at the top and reiterating that. And partially it's because I do it myself. And so if I'm gonna do it as a leader, I need to expect that my team's gonna do it. And what I say to my team is, and again, I'm a totally different business that is not as skilled right now. But I say, as long as you hit your results and what you need,
Meghan Houle (40:38.73)
Amen. Yeah.
Shira (41:03.261)
I don't care what hours you work. Like if you like working better in the mornings and that, you like working better in the afternoons, as long as you're responsive on text and email in a reasonable way and you're hitting our goals and we're working on that together, you could be working out of Mexico. I do not care. But I think this is the reality of this new world. including if you want like...
Meghan Houle (41:18.274)
Right, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah.
Meghan Houle (41:24.374)
Uh-huh.
Shira (41:28.653)
you want flexibility or you're having budgeting issues, which by the way, it's not just small businesses. You need to, you want people to be flexible with you, you need to be flexible with them. And I think that that's something that is not happening as much. It becomes like, no, this is just the way it is and you should deal with it. But then you're like, but you're asking of us, like the workforce to be flexible. Like we need to see it from both sides. And I think that will create more of my hope and mutual respect for like what we each experience.
on both sides of the coin from an employer, CEO, executive, you know, leadership standpoint and the employee team standpoint.
Meghan Houle (42:07.69)
Mm-hmm. No, and it's such good advice. mean, it really, it does start from the top. And I remember it used to be a badge of honor in companies that were like, I haven't taken a vacation this year. It's like really cool. Like what sick world are we living in? And like you have managers sometimes that, you know, their work is their life. That's fine. But then would stay sometimes in retail environments, like open to close, Shira. And then at a manager level, kind of like direct.
report counterpart, you're like, well, my boss here, like, you feel like bad leaving on time to like go to the gym class that you want to go to. And then the expectation is everyone works up on a close and it's like, no, I mean, don't even get me started with the amount of crying and like craziness I've gone through in my world of like luxury, tough fashion, but like it starts for the top. So I love that there's more work to do. And thank you for sharing all of that. And as someone who yourself,
has navigated multiple career pivots, as you were saying, from traditional media to digital platforms, and now with your mental health advocacy, what advice? So we're gonna talk to people in transition, right? We were talking about before too, we got on the podcast, like, what would you give people navigating their own career transitions, which can be so stressful, or dealing with these like challenges while pursuing professional success? Like what advice would you give somebody sitting with like some really heavy kind of transitional?
Shira (43:22.183)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (43:30.978)
moments right now. Yes.
Shira (43:31.595)
Yeah, well, yeah, first where you're at is okay beyond okay, right? And to have some grace and self compassion for that, right? Because I think the first thing that happens is there's maybe some judgment or shame. And so like knowing and recognizing where you're at, and how you're feeling, as well as the circumstances where you're at, and it's all okay. And
you're not wrong or bad because of that, right? And so really being kind to yourself, I think is important, which is where self-care and really doing that inner work is so important, like leaning into those positive coping strategies more than ever before is so important during this time, because this time, while we might have more time on our hands for that, it's also where we tend to veer off the road, right?
And oddly enough, it doesn't lead us to the results we want, you know, clearly. And then I would say finding, you know, one thing.
Meghan Houle (45:34.626)
Yes. Yeah.
Shira (45:52.483)
at least one thing you would do every day, I would say for yourself, like what's that one thing for yourself that you love that brings you joy, and then one thing for the work that you can do. So whether it be, you know, looking on a site to look at people to reach out to and, you know, sending your resume or set, you know, or introducing yourself to a certain amount of people every day, right? Like now your work is not just the work that you're doing under a contract, your work is for yourself.
Again, like you are now in business of you. So, you know, wake up. Yeah, so wake up like you're going to business for yourself that day, right? Like maybe you have, yeah, you get to create your schedule, which is nice. But it means like that day, what you're the boss, what are you doing? What does boss Shira, boss Megan want you to do today? What's the outcome? What's the goal? And so what are you doing every day to move towards that?
Meghan Houle (46:22.446)
It's a campaign of you. That's what I say all the time. Yes. Yeah.
Yes.
Shira (46:48.431)
And I do think in that time like that, that helps with confidence and self-worth because already that's gonna be, I would say for me, I can only speak for myself. Like it's hard when you're getting those either rejections or lack of answers, but at least if I'm doing something that I said I was gonna do, that helps. It's like, it helps with your brain. It's a trick, it's a brain trick towards confidence. Do what you say.
Meghan Houle (47:10.85)
Yeah, yeah, right.
Shira (47:17.143)
and cross things off that list and it will support you. So that's what I would say for, you know, being in transition and just remember, yeah, I guess your brain really is a powerful tool and you need to work with it. So realize that like our brains default to negative. So it's a muscle we need to work on to think positively. And when you know that you could know it's like not you, it's like our brains do this to us.
But there are things you could do to increase the happy hormones, increase your dopamine. Like, yeah, getting outside, exercising, meditation, doing those things you love will make a difference. It's not going to change your situation in an instant, but it helps. And then you show up better. And then a million bucks, you end up getting results from that.
Meghan Houle (48:07.598)
Yeah, yeah, no, I so agree. it, and I say it all the time, people probably want to like choke me, but it's a lot of like mindset things and it's, you know, right? And living in this like negative energy space where I don't know if you have friends like this year, I do, it's like drama breeds drama. You know those friends where they just always like have something like going on all the time? I mean, like the hits keep coming, but like, I just think like innately, some people just attract like constant like chaos.
Shira (48:17.137)
Yeah, mindset, yeah.
Meghan Houle (48:37.268)
And they're just like always managing through this happened, this happened. And then it's like, my God, everything's terrible. I mean, I've definitely done some edits in my life where I'm like, that energy is like no longer serving me. That's just like how they are. And I like love people from afar. Amazing. But like, I know not, and you guys can like, you know, take all this advice as you need to, but it really is waking up every day. And I'm going to ask you some questions about your other rituals too, but like,
Shira (48:52.274)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (49:03.576)
I've gotten into the habit of like waking up being like, thank you so much. Thank you for this day. I'm so grateful to be here. And then, know, and carving that time. So like my favorite times in the mornings, like I used to not be an early girl mornings.
I used to be like an early person and a night owl when I was working in retail. I was like so messed up, like juggling. I'm like, I have no idea who I am. But like now that I have a little more control, I'll get up and try to work out first thing. Cause I know if my schedule goes awry, I'm going to miss my workouts. But like I carved this time where I have a couple of books I love reading and I love like writing in a journal and you know, this kind of like gratitude journal and like goals I want to accomplish. And I have these.
Shira (49:33.466)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (49:44.448)
and I know you and I, love animals and we were talking about my cats. Yes, people as a podcast, you all know I love cats. I have these cat tarot cards, which I love, but I'll pull my cards and I'll be like, okay, Universe, what do I need? And you're setting yourself up and this has happened. I've been in transitions where I've gotten fired and I've heard the word no and I'm in agency contracts. People tell me freaking no all the time, but it's that space that you're in where you're like this or something better and the no's
Shira (49:53.34)
my god, that's
Meghan Houle (50:14.09)
not to get like cliche, but like the rejection always is a protection and it honestly leads to something better. what happened to you early on too in your career? So I love that. And it still happens, right? And it still happens. So like take it and get your mindset right and do those habits and rituals. And I guess looking back on your career as we wrap up, like what do you feel like is the biggest lesson you've learned about yourself during your transitions?
Shira (50:22.341)
I it still happens. It's still a very...
Shira (50:40.659)
to slow down.
Shira (50:46.291)
and to think, have faith and realize like how powerful and special I am.
And so, and I would say this to each of us, you know, hopefully that resonates. It's not about you thinking about how special and powerful I am, you know, it's more about, you know, you really sitting back and closing your eyes and really feeling the space around you and your energy and you existing right here, right now, wherever you're listening to this and really, truly knowing deep down that you are okay, that you are
safe, that you're protected, that everything is going to work out, and that you are a beautiful, powerful being miracle on this planet, because we each are, you It's very rare that we even got to be here, you know, with the sperm and the egg, you know, all that stuff, how procreation works. But when you really recognize that,
Meghan Houle (51:48.59)
Hmm?
Shira (51:55.475)
you can really give yourself some love in these moments, right? And knowing that it is temporary and this is part of the journey, right? This is part of your story. And then, yeah, I would just say like talking, I mean, I do a lot of like that child, child talk, what's it called? Inner child work. Like really recognizing, like sometimes having a conversation with myself.
Meghan Houle (52:14.904)
Like the inner, yes, yes, yes.
Shira (52:22.147)
as a, know, with my younger self and just saying like, how do you feel? then really, whether it be me or the younger child, who knows who's talking, but allowing myself to feel into my pain or my fear and my sadness or whatever's coming up and really feeling into that. And then being that elder self, like holding myself and telling myself that I'm okay is really powerful.
Meghan Houle (52:48.663)
I love that so much. Yeah, I mean, that's like some deep work. The podcast prior this season, I had a spinal like energy practitioner and healer and the inner child work. I'm doing some of that now. I mean, it's definitely like heavy, but I think if you can recognize it and sort of heal some of those and over time, you can really release it. And it's just such a beautiful moment when you can like, that's no longer affecting me or that's like not.
ruining or ruining my life with the big T and the small T traumas. I mean, we've all been through so much. So, I love that. It's so soothing. And, you know, in terms of what's next for you with all the things that you lead as an advocate, creator, entrepreneur, what are you most excited about for the future? How can people find you and work with you, Shira? Like, what do you have on your plate coming up for the rest of the year and early next year and how you, you know, share all your beautiful advice and wisdom and yeah, yeah.
Shira (53:34.291)
Yeah.
Shira (53:40.121)
out your sister. Yeah, just follow me everywhere at Chira Lazar in the show notes or wherever. And we also if you're into journaling, but you need some support with prompts and you know, the reframing we were talking about, right? We do have a journal I created a journal with my co founder from peace inside live. And it's called the Jomo journal a daily practice for the joy of missing out, you know, and to all the FOMA out there. And we have morning and nighttime prompts.
Meghan Houle (53:54.463)
huh.
Shira (54:10.413)
and that really help you rethink your approach and support your brain in focusing on something that can support you. So we have prompts like, what's one way I'm gonna choose, or what's one thing I'm gonna choose joy in doing today? So like, it might be something you like, or it might be something you don't like, laundry. I'm gonna choose joy in doing my laundry. Yes, I get to do my laundry today, you know.
Meghan Houle (54:35.755)
Uh-huh.
Shira (54:37.139)
I'm going choose joy in seeing my in-laws or I'm going to choose joy like, you know, in traffic, like really supporting you in that. Or boundaries. What boundaries am I going to set today? What am I going to choose joy in not doing? you know, for me, sometimes that is, you know, boundaries aren't doom scrolling or, you know, checking my phone when I don't need to check it. What can I do?
Meghan Houle (54:40.45)
Are you really pushing on all my pain points right now? I'm just kidding. Yeah. my favorite. Yeah.
Shira (55:06.717)
for someone else or to show up today for someone else. And a lot of times that's just a reminder. Like we all know these things, but these are reminders. And again, it's like a muscle. Like how many of us say we're gonna sit up, but we end up slouching. And it's just like, but when we tell ourselves in the morning or someone, know, we have something, it's like we remind ourselves to sit up straight, stand tall. It's like, we need to have these reminders. So these morning and nighttime practices,
helps so much and it helps again, you align with your joy and not have FOMO. And part of that is really getting into your value system and gratitude and all these science back tools that support you and living a joyful life. So yeah, check out the Jomo Journal, buy it for yourself, someone else this holiday season.
Meghan Houle (55:52.226)
Yes. Heck yeah. It's tis the season for gifts and we're going to link it all and all the ways to follow Shara. mean, she's got amazing social media channel websites, all of it. And you're, you know, you're so generous with.
information and helping individuals and responsive and engaging. So you are such a gem and thank you so much for sharing your incredible journey and wisdom with us. And your work in this digital culture and tech and mental health advocacy is so inspiring. I know the listeners are gonna walk away with a lot to think about, some things to buy, and some actionable takeaways to take care of their own mental health, especially while-
pursuing our careers and our own pivots with purpose. So I just love you, Shira. I can't wait to see you in person again and wishing you like all the success coming. And I know we're just gonna crush the new year. So thank you for being here. Yes. Thank you.
Shira (56:44.327)
Yes, thank you so much.