Pivot With Purpose Season 6 Episode 16 Camille Cooke Full Transcript
Meghan Houle (00:02.274)
Hello, Camille, welcome to the Pivot With Purpose podcast. How are you today?
Camille (00:05.999)
Hey, Megan, I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. It's so good to be chatting with you again.
Meghan Houle (00:11.176)
I know. Well, you know, I know we were talking months back when I was on your podcast, Unfulfilled, which we can like totally dive into and our fun time meeting each other at Alexis's event with Be Fairless. And I have to say, like, I love your name. Camille is like one of my favorite. Now, honestly, though, and my friend Ashley, shout out to Ashley. She had a baby a couple of years ago, almost a year ago. Sorry, she's going to be one in September.
Camille (00:22.394)
Yeah.
Camille (00:28.591)
Thank you.
Meghan Houle (00:38.76)
And her name is Camille, but we call her Cammie and her middle name is Beverly, which is like my grandmother's who has since passed away, but her name was Beverly. So it's like Cammie B. We call her Cammie B and it's like the best name ever. we love her. Cam, okay. It's very like distinguished and like fancy and luxury, which is like my world.
Camille (00:42.554)
Yeah.
Camille (00:53.128)
cute. That was a nickname of mine growing up, Cammie. But now a lot of my friends call me Cam.
Camille (01:03.896)
thank you.
Meghan Houle (01:04.652)
So your name is in good company. I used to hate my name when I was younger. I used to tell people, because I'm like an 80s, 90s kid, I'm like, my name is Stacey. Like, Stacey was like the hot name. And I'm like, no one's named Megan. And now, yeah.
Camille (01:11.545)
Mm. Mm!
Camille (01:16.503)
Right, well it's funny you say that. I didn't like Camille when I was younger because anything that's unique or different when you're young, you don't want that. I'm like, I wish I was like an Ashley or a Katie or something like easy. But now I like it, so I appreciate that.
Meghan Houle (01:21.762)
People are like, ew, right. Yes, right. Yeah, no, I Stacy maybe because of babysitter club books too. I'm like, I wanna be a Stacy. No, there's a funny story behind that. Stacy's mom, totally. But no, thank you for taking your time. And I'm so excited to share with you, with our listeners, your pivot journeys and just your wisdom through all that you share in your podcast.
Camille (01:32.985)
Yeah, Stacey's mom, all the things.
Meghan Houle (01:49.952)
and your community, you where I feel like you're like locked in at the very special time in your career where you're building and you're climbing and you're doing all the things. Like it's, I think, really exciting to show the listeners like a diversity of my professionals that are out there speaking to so many different communities. I feel like your topics really can resonate with anyone at any level and stage in life, career and otherwise. But before we dive in, just like a quick story.
Camille (01:57.423)
Yeah.
Camille (02:14.319)
Mm
Meghan Houle (02:18.208)
Where are we catching you now career wise? Tell us a little bit just about your podcast. Like what is up in Camille's world today? Yeah.
Camille (02:26.369)
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that. I so appreciate it. So podcast, again, like you mentioned, is called unfulfilled. And essentially, we just dive into everything about self -improvement, wellness, wherever you are on your growth journey. We talk about just how to live a more fulfilling life and all of those real things that we're feeling and experiencing and ways to best navigate it and just feel less alone in our journeys. So it's been so much fun and I love it. I started the podcast about
coming up on a year ago now, which is crazy to say actually. And career wise, I am in the finance and accounting field and started out at PWC, have since pivoted to Millennium, which is a hedge fund. So I'm in their finance department there. So I do have a nine to five where I go into the office and I've started the podcast as a side hustle. So definitely have great insights on.
kind of starting something on the side. And I also teach yoga on top of the nine to five as well. that is where I'm at right now doing the podcast and yoga teaching as well as working at Millennium. So definitely, you know, spreading myself a little thin, but as we can dive into later on, it's honestly just made me feel a lot more fulfilled in my day to day and not putting all of my eggs.
Meghan Houle (03:37.966)
of that.
Yeah.
Camille (03:49.805)
in one basket. So I actually am loving the whole side hustle journey and ultimately would love to eventually make the podcasting a full time thing. But you you got to pay New York rent out here. So Millennium is great for now.
Meghan Houle (04:00.162)
Yeah, yeah. Well, you're actually you're like a girl in finance. No, like anyone's looking for a girl in finance. you're the girl. But also what you're doing is not foreign in any way, or form where I just feel like, you know, there's a lot of people that I work with and know that are in your boat, you know, that have these amazing jobs that are locked in, you know, with that stability and consistency income, all of that.
Camille (04:05.793)
Mm -hmm, I am.
Camille (04:19.672)
Mm
Meghan Houle (04:28.812)
but are exploring their passion projects and sides and have, there's so many sides of who we are, right? I think it's such an old school mindset to feel and listen, some people don't subscribe to what you and I do, which is juggling a thousand things like Barnum and Bailey Circus. But, you know, I think like those that do, I feel that they're.
Camille (04:34.671)
Right.
Camille (04:43.029)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (04:50.346)
is always a frustration if you're not tapping into the side. And I think that's where people feel like no pun intended, unfulfilled within like not exploring like their passions and like honing in on that. And sure, it takes up time and energy, but I think it makes you more of a whole person where instead of just like the grind and the nine to five, and then you live for the weekends, you're just balancing in it with other things that fill up your cup. So
Camille (04:57.315)
Yeah.
Camille (05:17.528)
Absolutely.
Meghan Houle (05:17.548)
I love that, but I know it's always a lot. So I give you a ton of credit. And in terms of your job pivots, maybe one that changed the trajectory of your career. Did you always feel like finance was aligned for you? And maybe what was a pivot that really changed the trajectory of where you are now, if anything?
Camille (05:22.683)
Thank you.
Camille (05:40.419)
Yeah, so also I couldn't agree more with what you said in that, yes, it can be exhausting to do things on the side, but at the same time, if you look for one job and one role to provide everything for you, we're never gonna find that. And so I do think it's important even though it can feel like a lot. So it has been like a really fulfilling and awesome experience. In terms of pivots, I actually...
rather than a pivot, more just pivoting to this idea of not putting all my eggs in one basket with one job has been the biggest shift for me. So since leaving college, I, well, so I got a master's in accounting in college and majored in finance. So I kind of just, you know, felt a bit just directed down that route of accounting and finance. But a big part of me didn't know what I even wanted to do in college and didn't know.
who I was necessarily, like we're so young when we have to like pick a major and it's hard because then you just get pigeonholed into this kind of path and I know you and I dove into that a lot when you came on Unfulfilled. But yeah, so I was like, started out on this path, went to work for the big four and then when I went to look for a new job, I was working with a recruiter and I was basically like, I don't wanna do accounting at all. But they were kind of like, you know, it's hard to take such a huge leap.
Meghan Houle (06:37.411)
Yeah.
Camille (07:00.013)
maybe take like a smaller pivot towards something different, but still in a role where you're able to apply your skill set and the knowledge that you learned in your first job. So that's what I did and I transitioned into a role at Millennium where I was still in the finance accounting realm, but doing something very different and at a different, very different environment and more of an in office role. So I am a lot happier there, but still I was like, okay, this still isn't a role that I'm feeling fulfilled from.
you know, it's still kind of like doing the finance accounting numbers thing. And since in all the years after college, I very much, obviously, as I speak to on my podcast, like have dove into this growth journey and really have discovered who I am and what I love. And it's, to be honest, not finance and accounting. Like, sure, it's a stable, great job, but I've realized that's not where my passion and interests truly lie. So I would say now full circle back to the biggest pivot was
Meghan Houle (07:53.848)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Camille (07:57.633)
starting my podcast, which actually initially started as a blog, but kind of starting unfulfilled on the side because I was initially putting so much pressure on feeling very fulfilled in my nine to five job. I wanted to find a job that just gave me everything. I wanted to feel super happy and excited at work every day. I wanted to absolutely love what I was doing, love my coworkers. I wanted it to check every single box and just light me up. And since I've realized
Meghan Houle (08:12.508)
Yeah.
Camille (08:27.001)
okay, that's kind of really difficult to find in a job, at least a job that pays well and that's hiring and maybe hiring someone who doesn't even have that experience. It's hard to find. And so since I've very much shifted my perspective to be like, your nine to five are your main means of income, absolutely does not have to check every single box that you're.
Meghan Houle (08:38.765)
Yeah.
Camille (08:52.451)
soul desire or whatever. It doesn't have to satisfy every single one of your needs and interests, but what you can do is do things on the side, sprinkling other things into your life that maybe check the boxes that your nine to five doesn't. So when I started the blog and the podcast, I took so much pressure off of my main job being the most fulfilling thing in my life because I'm like, okay, great, I get...
fulfillment in this way when I go to work every day, but then I get fulfillment in this other way when I go teach yoga and then I get fulfillment in so many other ways when I do the podcast work and when I get to talk talking connect with cool people and feel like I'm actually contributing and helping and so it was a huge mindset shift for me when I started to pivot into doing this on the side because I learned to not put all my eggs in one basket and instead to get different things from different
know, interests in my life and it's taken the pressure off and it's honestly just made life a lot better. So that's been a a huge change this last year.
Meghan Houle (09:50.446)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (09:54.636)
That's awesome. Yeah, that's so awesome. And then to talk through that, because as that evolution has come together, feel like professionally, you're probably showing up a little bit different too. So what type of quote unquote professional do you feel like you are now versus maybe how you were a few years ago? And what are your experiences with this pivoting process that have really allowed you to grow and expand in new ways?
Camille (10:24.229)
Yeah, totally. I would say a couple years ago, Camille was a lot more of a perfectionist than I am now. And I guess I'll elaborate on that. I used to want to just do everything really, really well, like at my job, for example, or in school. I would beat myself up if I did something wrong or if I got maybe negative feedback in any way. I would take it as a hurt to my self -worth. And I think since...
doing a lot more and actually feel like I'm growing things and creating things, I've taken the pressure off doing it perfectly. Because doing something doesn't have to mean doing it perfectly, and doing something imperfectly is far better than not doing anything at all. And so one huge way that I've grown through all of this is learning how to do things imperfectly but be proud of what I'm doing regardless. Whereas I think previously I was a lot more focused on like
all the things that were like maybe minor mistakes or things that I was doing wrong or like maybe I got like, I did really well on this one project but I would be focused on the one piece of negative feedback or like negative review at work or something like that. So I think, you know, the more that we do and the more that we take action in our lives, the more that we realize, it doesn't have to be perfect but we can just keep going anyways and learn and grow through those imperfections.
So that's definitely been a huge way that I've grown. I've noticed specifically in the workplace, now when I get feedback, I'll be like, thank you so much for that. I'll do better next time. Because I think honestly with this podcast journey, I've just grown so much through it and I've learned how to embrace imperfections because you know what I'm talking about, tech issues, whatever it may be. Yeah, you just gotta keep going. Exactly.
Meghan Houle (12:14.112)
Yeah, like nothing is perfect with podcasts. You're like, great. Just shut down on a recording. Yeah, you're like amazing.
Camille (12:23.439)
So I think my resiliency is just like really cranked up a bunch of notches. And that's made me a better worker in that instance because I've just taken the pressure off of like being perfect, but just know that I'm like doing my best and we're all human beings, you know?
Meghan Houle (12:39.598)
Yeah, no, 100%. And I think the messaging in that, a couple of things, like just start, it's always gonna feel scary, but if you don't start, what are you missing out on? And then you're right. I mean, it's not necessarily losses at times, but feedback, something that maybe you didn't nail 100 % and we can't win all the time, everybody. And I think that's a prep mechanism and I'm very much there with you, girl.
Camille (12:41.891)
and
Camille (12:46.778)
Mm -hmm.
Meghan Houle (13:04.162)
You know, I'm like first born girl, you know, first girl, first child, first niece, first everything. I'm like the first in my family. So, you know, I was the, like, I mean, everything, you know, is perfect. And I tried to be the good kid. I mean, and this is like from a very young age, being super aware of like how to be good, whatever that means, right? For like an eight year old.
Camille (13:11.599)
Well, yeah.
Camille (13:22.554)
Right.
Meghan Houle (13:24.142)
But I think like as we grow up, it's so hard because especially for high achievers like I know you are, you know, we don't want to disappoint. Also, we don't want to disappoint people. We don't want to disappoint ourselves. And, you know, there's so much in that. But I think, again, like you honing in on the feedback and whatever you can gain in that, you take that as critical learning and you move forward. And it's amazing. Like we always should be learning.
Camille (13:35.045)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (13:51.148)
and then just starting and you're now this like little entrepreneurial soul that is running a podcast, which is a huge freaking, you know, deal as we talked about too, like you guys listening in the podcasts are not for the faint of heart. Like it's cutesy, very cutesy, very demure. I'm not just kidding. But like, honestly, it's a lot of work. in balancing all of that and like showing up and
Camille (13:54.874)
Mm -hmm
Camille (14:12.771)
It's a grind, yeah.
Meghan Houle (14:16.632)
Sometimes on the days where you maybe don't wanna have a conversation, but like giving your voice to a community is so, so needed. So I give you so much credit, so much going on, but you're doing it and I'm very proud of you. And in terms of someone maybe in your shoes that has a side hustle or wants to bring out more of themselves in their work in some way, or just feeling stuck, why should someone consider a job?
Camille (14:29.029)
Thank you.
Camille (14:38.128)
Mm
Meghan Houle (14:44.91)
And when do you know when it's time?
Camille (14:49.955)
Yeah, I think ultimately if you no longer feel like you're growing in whatever you're doing, it's time for a change or it's time to incorporate new things. I think if you feel like you're not growing or if you're just not happy in your day to day, that's 100 % when I would say it's time for a pivot. So, you know, I was like not very happy in my first job and then I entered the second job and I was like, hmm, I'm still like, like it's better, but I'm still not like fully.
fulfilled, you I know I use that word a lot, like, it's because it's the brand. And, but that's honestly how I felt. was like, okay, it's better, but why do I still feel like, like I'm still not that happy doing this work. So that's when I realized, okay, I think I just need to incorporate something different into my life. And I think this is another thing you and I talked about when you came on Unfulfilled.
Meghan Houle (15:20.491)
No, it's what it is. No, it's great. It's true to you. Amen. Yeah.
Camille (15:47.003)
It's okay if you don't want to take that huge risk. There's no need to just quit your job and take a leap and do something 100 % different. I would say if you're feeling like you're not growing or if you feel like you're not happy, start just sprinkling things on the side because odds are you probably don't know what you want to do next. Like most of us don't know what the path looks like and nor should we because it's hard to know until you try something. And so I'm a huge proponent of trying new things.
when you feel like something is missing in life because if anything, you learn more about what you don't like, you grow and learn through that experience. And so trying new things on the side will only allow you to grow and learn more about yourself. And hopefully you find something that you're really interested in on the side and you really love. And then that can be your new goal of like, okay, I want to transition into something like that. And again, it doesn't have to be right off the bat. Like I said, I've been doing the podcast for almost a year now.
and I still have my nine to five. It doesn't have to be like, quit my job tomorrow, go find a new job. I think like you said, that's a really traditional older perspective in that you should have one job and that's it. No, we can be multifaceted. We can do different things. We're human beings. We have a lot of different interests and desires and that can be fed through a lot of different routes. So yeah, if you feel like you're not growing,
not super happy in your job, try incorporating new things and it will make a pivot less scary because then you can just slowly start to lean into and grow that thing in whatever capacity that allows until maybe you feel comfortable to take that full pivot. But you know, a pivot can almost be like a spectrum. It doesn't necessarily have to be like such a black and white leap of faith.
Meghan Houle (17:36.438)
Right. Like, burn it all down, Jerry Maguire style. Like, I'm out of here. And then, yeah, I mean, I think I always caution, too, which I feel like we've talked about in just, like, various platforms that we've been connected on together. you know, I think that in taking, like, such a big leap and maybe unless a company is, super toxic and it's, really affecting your mental health, maybe this is not popular opinion. But I always am like, try not to leave a job.
Camille (17:40.933)
Yeah.
Camille (17:48.527)
Mm
Meghan Houle (18:04.878)
unless you have something lined up because it's pretty scary out there in this day and age. I will tell you for 13 years as I've been doing specific agency recruiting, 2024 has felt like the wild, wild west, even far beyond like anything we were dealing with COVID. Like Camille, there's so much competition. There's so much, you know, I think kind of like frantic energy at times where people...
Camille (18:05.25)
Mm
Camille (18:20.323)
Well, yeah.
Meghan Houle (18:30.062)
Right, have a bad day at work. And then they're like, let me just apply to 50 jobs. And I'm like, PSA everyone, the worst day of your life on a job is not the day to start looking for a job. I'm sorry. You cannot look from a job from a place of scarcity, insecurity, frustrations. It absolutely cannot be emotionally driven, please. So gaining clarity around what's next, absolutely what you just said. Try to make the best of your situation.
Camille (18:41.007)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (18:58.018)
Talk to a boss like, hey, I'm kind of feeling unfulfilled. Is there a project that I can take on? Or is there another department I can learn from? And I think there's so much magic in conversations that we don't leverage. But as my favorite saying these days goes, closed mouths do not get fed. So if somebody doesn't know what you want to do, what you're looking for, go internally first. And if it's not something they can offer you, great. Thank you very much. And then you consider further pivots.
Camille (19:06.809)
Mm
Camille (19:17.37)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (19:28.034)
Yeah, that's super powerful. And I think not enough people leverage internal offerings wherein like at a resignation, if it's coming as a surprise to your company and they're scrambling to be like, wait Camille, we're just going to offer you this job and whatnot. Like you don't want to be at a crossroads where you have a resignation with another offer with another company, which could probably have taken six months just saying people.
You know, that you're like, sugar, maybe I'll just stay in my current role. Massive waste of time. That's how you burn bridges in the interview process. So don't get to that point from like a master recruiter. And then, you know, on the flip side with Camille's master advice of like, try to leverage something internally and then make that decision for you. And you'll know it's time, but there's such a strategy behind it. So thank you for sharing all of that. And then, you know, in terms of talking about environment.
Camille (19:50.895)
Mm.
Meghan Houle (20:17.902)
and people and teams and leaders. I mean, I know you're absolutely in a profession in an industry that sometimes gets a bad rap for sure. But I think just collectively, not even speaking to like you're in, you know, in day in and day out, but like navigating negative experiences in your career. I mean, I feel like working with a bad boss, toxic people, which we could have a whole podcast on, difficult people to work with, difficult, you know.
Camille (20:18.597)
Mm -hmm.
Camille (20:26.597)
Mm.
Camille (20:37.68)
Yeah.
Camille (20:44.356)
Right.
Meghan Houle (20:46.734)
ER issues that sometimes it's just like if someone is who they are, like that's just who they are and you have to learn how to manage personalities. But how have you handled negative experiences in your career or talk to people, tough conversations, like what are some of your best practices? Because I know it's something we're also collectively dealing with at times too in the workplace. Yeah.
Camille (21:08.141)
Yeah, it's so interesting too because through my growth journey and just learning how people are just in a day to day, it's also very much helped in the workplace because I'm very aware of the fact now that I'm just like a little older and wiser that like, okay, people are always projecting their own shit and it's never about me. And
Meghan Houle (21:22.072)
Mm
Meghan Houle (21:31.01)
Yes. Yes.
Camille (21:34.267)
I would say going back to like your earlier question of like five years ago, Camille, I would take everything personally. I was like, my God, why didn't, why did they have like a tone when they said good morning? Did I do something to hurt them? It's like, no, they're probably just like a little tired or hungover. Yeah, like, I don't know. And it's just like, I just learned 99 % of what people say or do is never actually about you. And especially in a workplace, I learned it's.
Meghan Houle (21:39.953)
yeah.
Meghan Houle (21:44.751)
Mm -hmm. Everybody hates me. I'm going home. Yeah, totally. Yeah.
Camille (22:02.381)
it's pretty important to not take things personally. And so I definitely am someone who's like a bit more sensitive and I do internalize certain energies or comments. So in the workplace, I do still get triggered when people use a certain tone or they're like, hey, please do this next time. I'm like, my God, they're so mad at me.
Meghan Houle (22:12.298)
Mm -hmm.
Meghan Houle (22:21.272)
Yeah, I know. And the delivery of it is sometimes so tough. But some people are just so matter of fact, Camille. It's like, we're not going to get hugs and stickers and all of this at work. It's just like, OK. And it's what it is. Like, thank you. And when you know those people that have that tone, you're like, it's them. But yeah, I hear that. Ugh. Messaging is so hard. I know.
Camille (22:25.7)
I know.
I know.
Camille (22:34.16)
Right.
Camille (22:38.317)
Yeah, but even if you get it like even if it's over like slack or like over a message like hey, please do this next time. It's like Yeah, like I literally got one of those this morning and I was like I literally my heart sank a little cuz I'm like, They're like really not happy with me. But I'm also like, okay a it was a slack They probably actually meant it in a nicer tone. We just like internalized stuff. But again, I'm like, okay Look, this is like such a little blip and I don't take anything personally. I'm doing my best and how I respond is the only thing that's in my control here so then I'm like
Meghan Houle (22:54.188)
Yeah, let's just direct. Yeah. Yep.
Meghan Houle (23:07.383)
Yes.
Camille (23:08.365)
Okay, I'm so sorry, like totally will do that next time. Like thanks for the feedback, you know, and I've noticed the more that I respond like that and like look we're doing our best out here again. We're human beings. We're gonna be imperfect and make mistakes and if someone has something to say about that or if someone approaches you with a certain tone or makes a certain comment towards you, all you can do is respond in a kind, accepting and compassionate way both for yourself and for that person. And so I think it's A, really helpful to
Meghan Houle (23:11.18)
Yes. Good for you.
I'm sorry.
Meghan Houle (23:33.282)
Yep. Yeah.
Camille (23:36.781)
not take things personally, people are always projecting their own shit onto you. And maybe they're like super into like corporate and their job and you're just like not not at that level. And they might like get annoyed with you at times because you're not a harto like them. Like, let it go. You like, you know, people are again are going to just like project that onto you sometimes. And the more confident you are in yourself and the more you learn how to detach from taking things so personally and just be the best person that
Meghan Houle (23:45.57)
Yeah.
Camille (24:06.701)
you are proud of, I've found it's easier to just let go of maybe those toxic energies or negative experiences sometimes.
Meghan Houle (24:14.63)
Mm -hmm. No, that's such good advice. And yeah, the dangers of these communication channels that are not like phone calls or videos where, no, seriously, you get that text from your boss, like, can we talk? And then your heart sings. I mean, we always go straightest to like the negative worst case scenario mindset. Like, truly, I do. I'm like, great, like my life is over.
Camille (24:25.163)
Mm -hmm. It's tough.
Camille (24:34.505)
Are we breaking up?
Meghan Houle (24:38.434)
But that's not always the case. And again, you don't know what someone's dealing with on the other end. So I love that advice. Can't take anything personally and then respond with kindness. No, especially workplace. Let's just come on. And then, yeah, I had an instance, two of them this week, of some demanding.
Camille (24:46.619)
especially in the workplace, you know? Yeah.
Meghan Houle (24:56.024)
situations and threatening situations with clients. And I'm like, okay, thank you so much. I'm so, you know, it's great that you feel that way. However, let's not put this energy behind it. Like here's the strategy. And I think sometimes when you're getting tough feedback, you need to have tough conversations, like show up with facts. Like also too, if someone's like really grinding you or second guessing, or you just like, you feel like you like can't.
Camille (25:02.658)
Mm -hmm.
Camille (25:08.73)
Yeah.
Camille (25:15.28)
Mm
Meghan Houle (25:21.452)
you know, win with anything that comes out of your mouth or you're going to really struggle with like a response here. I would say just like face the facts. You know, you can kind of own your mistakes, but face the facts. And in strategic communication, there can be beautiful outcomes. But I think it's when everyone gets super passive aggressive that you're like, we are all on well right now. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
Camille (25:31.191)
Exactly.
Camille (25:38.607)
Yeah.
Camille (25:42.201)
Yeah, and I love that you said to own your mistakes. Making mistakes is okay. I very much make mistakes sometimes in my role, but I'm always like, I'm so sorry, that was my bad. And I work with great people where they're like, it's okay, just please do this next time. And I'm like, totally agree, thank you for that. And then moving on. Maybe it feels uncomfortable for the next hour, because you're beating yourself up in your head a little bit, but it's like, just let it go, move on. Think about how small of a blip that mistake is.
Meghan Houle (25:52.888)
Mm -hmm
Meghan Houle (25:56.768)
Yes. Yep.
Meghan Houle (26:05.056)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Camille (26:10.276)
learn and grow from it and do a little bit better next time. But like everyone's humans, everyone is human, everyone makes mistakes and owning up to the mistakes is a great way to approach maybe if someone like comes at you a little bit, be like, hey, I'm so sorry. And then if you own the mistake and then respond apologetically, but also with compassion and kindness and grace, I feel like they'll just calm down and back off. Be like, ooh, maybe like I did come on a little too strong, you know?
Meghan Houle (26:12.707)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (26:35.394)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, workplace and then I think for people in service environments too. my God. I have such a crazy story of something that happened to me at Louis Vuitton where I made a mistake just in not even like detrimental, but like almost like a client mistake. I feel like when this podcast comes out, maybe I'll do like a little side teaser of that story because I don't want this to overtake the conversation. But I feel like you just have to be like, hey, yeah, we did it.
Camille (26:57.988)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (27:02.452)
it's going to be okay. The world's going to be fine. Like life goes on. And thank you so much. You know, we're moving forward and stick with it, but don't let it fester because then what happened to me at Vuitton, like that like fester. But again, I was early on in my career. So like we took we took it very seriously. And then there are people at work that take it very seriously. So know that you're not always going to be at everyone's level. Learn from it. Move on. Have great direct communication. Face the facts. And that's all you can do. So, you know, yeah.
Camille (27:05.935)
Right.
Camille (27:29.955)
Yeah, and you mentioned this earlier too about how a lot of us are people pleasers and want everyone to like us and you know, think we're really great and it can be really hard if you tend to be people pleaser to accept that someone might, you know, have something negative to say about your performance or maybe like, maybe a bit like, you know, express that kind of negative energy or toxicity towards you. It can be really hard to...
Meghan Houle (27:36.094)
god.
Yeah.
Camille (27:56.283)
except if you are a people pleaser and want everyone to like you, I 100 % have like, I'm going through that as well, like overcoming my desire to people please. So again, like when I got that message this morning, I'm like, no, like I just want them to like, like me. I'm sad that they like are annoyed at me right now or something like that. You know, it's like, look, this, especially in a workplace, like keep it professional. Not everyone has to love you. You're just working together. You know what I mean? And, and it is a great way to kind of practice working through that.
Meghan Houle (28:16.31)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Meghan Houle (28:24.077)
Yeah.
Camille (28:24.545)
is stepping away from people pleasing because you don't need everyone to love you all the time. Just like be your best self and people are gonna respect that or they won't. Again, they're probably projecting their own thing. so yeah, people pleasing can be really difficult too when someone doesn't have something always positive to say.
Meghan Houle (28:41.464)
Totally. I think, you know, I, and I do love that too, because I think it's like these work boundaries where it's work again, I, I honestly think it can be pretty tricky when it's the opposite Camille and I've worked in these environments when you feel like it's too chummy, right? When you feel like everyone needs to be friends with everyone. And that's when clicks start, right? And that's when people start to feel left out and there's HR issues that come up because so -and -so went to the club with so -and -so.
Camille (28:57.419)
Mm
Yeah, like no boundaries.
Camille (29:09.406)
no.
Meghan Houle (29:10.574)
my God, my early days in retail where people coming in like hungover. I was just like, please kids, like no, no, listen, it happens. But you know, I definitely feel like it's like, you know, on both sides of it. It's like, just show up, your job, like make friends, be kind, be nice. like you have, you know, you go to the gym, find your passions, like get a podcast, like knit, paint, having the creative energy, so golf, like whatever.
Camille (29:33.071)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (29:37.058)
you love. Work is not the end of the road for sure. So yeah.
Camille (29:41.015)
A hundred percent. That's like it's that's exactly my mindset lately. It's like it's not life. Sometimes our society, especially like where I'm living right now in New York City, work is everything for some people. People work around the clock and make it everything. I'm like, I am so not about that. I'm like, it is a vehicle to live your life. And of course, if you're going into the office most days, you want to be, you know, you want to be happy. You want to like who you work with and you want to like enjoy your day to day for the most part.
Meghan Houle (29:45.186)
Mm -hmm.
Meghan Houle (29:51.768)
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (30:00.206)
Mm -hmm.
Camille (30:09.829)
but it should not be your life. For example, my coworkers don't even know about the podcast because I think it's okay to keep my personal life separate. And I am friends with my coworkers too, the sense that we do work happy hours sometimes together and I enjoy chatting with them in the office, but they're not the people I'm going out with on Friday and Saturday nights and they're not the people that I'm sending my podcast episodes to. I think it's okay and healthy to have.
Meghan Houle (30:11.97)
No, yeah.
Meghan Houle (30:27.82)
Right. No, no, no.
Camille (30:36.089)
boundaries at work and to have your personal life be personal. And it really does help with keeping things professional in the workplace as well.
Meghan Houle (30:37.154)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (30:42.318)
Yes. I feel like that this whole another podcast topic of like the dangers of like getting too chummy. I mean, I literally have 101 stories. Girl, please, I could get like a chicken soup for your soul book. Like here's 17 essays on like why you don't be best friends with everyone at work. my god. I love it. There's no need to. Yes. No, I agree 1000%. Well, you know,
Camille (30:48.643)
Yeah, we'll have to record again, Megan.
Camille (30:54.223)
Ha ha ha ha.
Camille (31:00.505)
Yeah, there's no need to. It's almost, it's better. It's better that way.
Meghan Houle (31:07.468)
Before I let you go, like a few questions, because I know you have such a great professional community and really as somebody who is continuing to rise and in this kind of up and comer sense of like you are not done by any means, you have big goals, a lot more amazing lives to change and inspire and kind of build in your own in your professional group and beyond finance and maybe even some of your friends and people that like listen to
Camille (31:09.957)
Mm.
Camille (31:27.962)
hehe
Meghan Houle (31:36.536)
podcasts and messages that you get like, are you seeing any job trends right now that people are just really excited about or are like asking you about or you know, any advice on like job trends that you're seeing in your professional group that may be different from maybe some of the other tenured individuals. I am girl I can be one of them like I'm like pushing mid 40s. So yes, I've been working since like the 90s.
Camille (31:58.746)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (32:03.982)
But what we think in those trends, which we've talked about some, is just not how I think a certain generation now is really aligning with. So what are some trends you're seeing in your professional groups? Yeah.
Camille (32:04.111)
Yeah, I know.
Camille (32:13.7)
Right.
Yeah, totally. I mean, I feel like I've already touched on this, but can't hear it enough. I think it is this side hustle thing. It's it's not staying in a job you're unhappy with too long if you're not happy there. I think a lot of people in their 20s, even 30s nowadays, like are pivoting out of jobs a lot quicker or starting things on the side, going to do their own thing, because I think the messaging is now like, look, you don't have to stay at the corporate job if that's not for you. And I think it is becoming a lot more normal to
Meghan Houle (32:24.6)
You
Meghan Houle (32:36.248)
Yes.
Camille (32:47.067)
start something on the side and eventually want to go and lean into it, especially with our digital day and age. There's so many new opportunities that's coming along with that. So I would say that's 100 % a trend. I even know people at the company I'm currently working at who have shared their side hustles with me and their goals to eventually go break into that. So I very much see that as a trend. for example, other podcasters I know, they still have a primary
Meghan Houle (33:07.214)
Mm -hmm.
Camille (33:15.669)
means of income, but are still doing the podcast on the side. And so I think that definitely is like a big trend. And I'm so about that trend. Like I promote it all the time again, like I talked about earlier, trying something different on the side and sprinkling different things into your life. think it's so great, you know? And again, like you said, it can be a lot and it can be really intimidating to start because it's like, okay, where do I find the time? I get home from work in the evenings. I'm exhausted. Weekends, I just want to let loose and have fun. But it's like, you just got to take a baby step.
Meghan Houle (33:42.804)
Mm -hmm. Yep.
Camille (33:45.007)
You know, like, it can be like such a tiny thing. Like when I started the podcast, was like, Google, how do I start a podcast and like create cover? Just like starting, starting small is the name of the game. But yeah, just like doing things on the side or just not staying in a corporate role you're unhappy with for too long, you know?
Meghan Houle (33:51.624)
What is the name? Yes. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (34:05.002)
Yeah. And I do agree in that the job flips are happening a lot sooner. I always say give something at least a year, unless it's super toxic. you guys listen. You're going to know in two weeks if you made the wrong decision. As the arrest of development, like Job, I made a huge mistake. Honestly, for any arrested development fans, hey, now you have to go watch it, Camille. But I think like,
Camille (34:15.513)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Camille (34:22.405)
That's true.
Camille (34:29.489)
Hehehehehe
Meghan Houle (34:33.77)
If you feel like you made a huge mistake, then you can get out and please make it, but then at least own it. I think there's also this thing of like, I wasn't on job teeling, I'm going to leave it out of my resume. No, if it was a part of you, let's not hide anything because the things always surface. And if they surface without you being the one talking about it, it's actually like a lot worse. So I would say I agree that there is an energy, although companies definitely still look for
Camille (34:50.863)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (35:02.606)
10 years, you know, I do this day in and out, I'm like, I can look at resumes in my sleep, to be able to talk through transitions. And you're wise of like, hey, I was here for a couple years. But you know, I followed my boss to this like next amazing startup, or, you know, I was able to upskill and leave and it was like a job offer. I could not refuse. But yeah, like see what's out there. Don't feel like you have to like lock yourself in for the rest of your life. And, you know, start those amazing side hustles that you have and
Camille (35:06.947)
Mm.
Camille (35:15.248)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (35:28.928)
Another thing, mean, I know you're good and obviously what you're doing, sometimes there can be blurred lines with side hustles. I've had people in fashion or merchandising that have then cameo started their own jewelry line or have done jewelry sales on the side from different vendors. sometimes there's conflict of interests that can erupt where you...
Camille (35:38.064)
Mm.
Camille (35:44.602)
Mm.
Camille (35:48.741)
totally. Yeah. Good thing a hedge fund and a wellness podcast couldn't be more different. Literally could not be more opposite.
Meghan Houle (35:52.266)
Right? Like I think you're good. You could probably go in and teach yoga to your finance team. You're like, I'm actually going to benefit your life because I'm doing this. But like, you know, I think it's also just something to be aware of. Like if bosses find out, you know, that you have something going on, who cares? Like, look at me, I have eight jobs and it's all in synergy. But, you know, I think like if it is a point where it's maybe a little too close to home, like you probably want to communicate like in some way so like you don't get screwed or honestly like
Let go. I've had horror stories where people have found out these side hustles and girl, I have stories for days. I just feel like don't not start, but also be strategic and think about the industries you're in and what that synergy looks like. And if it's too conflicting, I would just let people know. You don't want to hide anything. But at the end of the day, yeah, I agree. We're multifaceted. So certainly that's
Camille (36:28.741)
Mm
Camille (36:42.789)
Right.
Meghan Houle (36:48.802)
I know it's a huge trend and I love it. And I love the rise of entrepreneurship and women and entrepreneurship and all my business, my business baddies. Heck yeah, heck yeah. So in terms of your podcasts, I'm fulfilled. What questions or topics like, you know, do you feel like are hot right now? And like, you know, what, maybe consistently comes in through your podcast engagement, which I know is so great.
Camille (36:52.697)
Yeah. Anyone can do anything they want. And that's a really important message. Yeah.
Camille (37:02.288)
Yes.
Camille (37:14.725)
Mm.
Meghan Houle (37:14.819)
that people are wanting to learn from you or asking you maybe recently or just a resounding theme this year. Yeah.
Camille (37:22.991)
I think a big one is kind of how to find balance, you know? And the beauty of that topic is it can be in all aspects of our lives. Like we're constantly trying to find this balance in our relationships, in our work, in our personal life, like in our wellness, physical and mental health. Like finding balance and managing overwhelm or overextending ourselves is huge. And it's something I just love to talk about. And it can be very applicable to this conversation, like work -life balance.
Meghan Houle (37:28.781)
Yeah.
Camille (37:52.655)
that is huge, especially if you wanted to incorporate something on the side, but how do you find that balance where we avoid burnout? You and I literally were chatting before this about how it's like, we have our weeks where we're exhausted. Yeah. So it's something I love to talk about and I'll do different episodes kind of addressing certain areas over others. like social life, for example, like.
Meghan Houle (38:04.62)
No one talk to us, please. Someone laying on the floor, catch me on the floor. Yeah.
Camille (38:20.035)
often we can overextend ourselves socially, especially if you're in your 20s and you feel like you have to be doing all these things and going out and being social and going to the bars and all that. And it's like, I've so leaned into just doing what I feel like I wanna do and not just trying to people -please and going along with the tide or whatever and whatever everyone else is doing. And it's been so much better for me. And so that's a big topic I like to talk about.
Meghan Houle (38:28.156)
Ugh, God. Yes.
Camille (38:49.145)
You know, work -life balance, like tune into your body. If there are weeks where you feel like you're overextending yourself or you feel like your body just needs some extra rest that week, it is okay to pump the brakes. The world will not explode, you know, and communicate what you need to your coworkers and the people in your life. And just balance is so important, you know? And so that's a big topic. I did an episode recently on overcoming perfectionism. I know we talked about that earlier in the episode, but I know a lot of people struggle with things like that.
And yeah, gosh, there's just like endless topics, but just to live a more fulfilling life, we talk about it all.
Meghan Houle (39:22.368)
I know it's endless. yes. Well, no, we'll make sure obviously all of the great links and everything will be in the show notes. So after this guy scroll down, like download cameo's podcast and you know, tell us as your own little personal brand that I know you are like, who is that ideal audience that you're speaking to and how can people really engage with you through your platforms? Yeah.
Camille (39:45.709)
Yeah, thank you so much. you know, just anyone on their growth journey who's interested in self -improvement and wellness and just ultimately want to learn and grow and just live a more fulfilling life, think unfulfilled will really resonate with you. And all the topics we cover will hopefully inspire you and help you or a friend or family member in your life. So wherever you are on your journey, we definitely talk about all of the real things and how to best navigate it.
Meghan Houle (40:15.09)
So a year ago, a year from today, we're having a conversation. What do you want to see? What do you want us to be talking about? Like any big juicy goals on the docket? Yeah. Like, what are we talking about? I know. Let's like put some energy in the universe. Yeah. Okay. We're doing it, girl. Okay. Okay. Maybe get like you on like a fun stage, like live in person on fulfilled. All right.
Camille (40:24.995)
A year from now. Ooh. You know what? Maybe it would be pivoting out of the corporate job. Maybe I'm doing unfulfilled full time. That would be crazy. That would be awesome.
Camille (40:40.127)
yeah. I would love to do some in -person events. I have been brainstorming with doing yoga classes here in this city, outdoor yoga classes and kind of looping in unfulfilled. I love connecting with people. It's just one of my biggest passions. But yeah, would say doing in -person events. Would love to do some live things. yeah, think hopefully a year from now, I think it could be realistic too.
Meghan Houle (40:44.109)
Yes.
Camille (41:07.311)
you know, just be doing unfulfilled. So yeah, I'm dreaming big out here.
Meghan Houle (41:07.534)
100%. Yeah. So good. Absolutely. No, as you should. And I so agree. I mean, you and I met at an IRL event in real life. You know, and I think there's so much magic in getting out from behind our screens, getting out of our house. Like, it's scary, you guys. I know networking is like a dirty word for people.
Camille (41:17.273)
Mm -hmm.
Meghan Houle (41:27.16)
for some, like, there's so much power in meeting new people. You never know where conversations are gonna lean. And I love that. And I also love creating communities where we can have events big or small. can be like super intimate. let's, let's noodle on that and see maybe how I can support you too with those big fun goals that you have. But no, I feel like you are such a wonderful soul. I feel your podcast is
Camille (41:31.961)
Yes.
Camille (41:45.829)
Yes, I would love that.
Meghan Houle (41:52.054)
so calming and soothing with great advice and it's such a great listening. You just have such a calm yet strategic way about you and you're in finance. So I'm confused, but I also love you. But I'm like, I mean, I'm just like, your energy is so great. Well, I feel like that's why you're really successful when you are, because you're doing your thing, but you're not like the, type A, tearing everything down, starting fires everywhere. That's not you.
Camille (42:00.975)
Thank you. me too. I'm also confused.
Camille (42:19.674)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (42:19.894)
I mean, I feel like there's a big bright future and I'm so excited to see what's next. So everyone please, yes, go follow Camille, go hit her links in our bio, on Instagram, all of it. You're gonna learn a lot and she's a pretty powerful soul. So I really appreciate all your time and I hope to see you in real life soon. So stay tuned, I'll be coming to New York, yes.
Camille (42:25.125)
Thanks, Megan.
Camille (42:42.817)
I would love that. Thank you for the kind words. You're the absolute best. And thank you for having me on today.
Meghan Houle (42:47.288)
My pleasure.