Pivot With Purpose Season 6 Episode 2 Amy Kapolnek Full Transcript
Meghan Houle (00:01.486)
Hold on. Danielle, welcome to the Pivot With Purpose podcast. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for being here today. How are you doing? Yes. I love you. Well, I'm so happy that, you know, our relationship very organically has blossomed, informed, and I just feel like in such a short period of time.
Danielle (00:09.853)
The biggest smile on my face. I'm so happy right now.
Meghan Houle (00:25.102)
I know you and I share a lot in common from somewhat of like a business point of view and I know how passionate you are about all things teams and hiring, which we'll get into on the flip side, which you know is like my day in and day out, but just like learning so much from you, even the short time I've been in your space. And I truly appreciate just also how authentically you show up as a business owner, dealing with the highs and lows of all the things that come in from clients.
Danielle (00:51.295)
No.
Meghan Houle (00:53.614)
to challenging individuals. It's not all butterflies and roses out there people. So I really appreciate the way, right? That you show up because I think there are so many people that are just like, oh, they have businesses. It must be so great. And they must take like five hour lunches. I was like, no, we actually don't eat. We probably don't eat lunch. That's bad. I know don't follow me for any health or wellness advice people. We're all about pivots on this podcast. But
Danielle (00:58.807)
Mmm, preach.
Meghan Houle (01:21.23)
Tell me, where are we catching you in life right now? Danielle, like tell us a little bit about that. Yeah.
Danielle (01:27.918)
Oh man, I mean I'm gonna spare everyone all the outside drama, but you're catching me in Los Angeles, my hometown, born and raised, never left. I have a one-year-old, he's about 15 months, so like I'm balancing the mom life and the business hustle and trying to keep my head on straight and trying to keep the wheels on the bus.
Meghan Houle (01:46.862)
I'm trying to keep the wheels on the bus. Yes. Aren't we all, girl? Aren't we all? How do you feel like the beginning? I know this is like a loaded question. We're like how much time? But the beginning of 2024, we're rolling into almost like fourth month. It's crazy to think how sort of we're like halfway there. What is your sense of 2024 already? I know it's kind of like weird to be talking about it. But like-
Danielle (02:08.962)
Hmm.
Meghan Houle (02:15.022)
How has it been for you kind of coming into this new year? I feel like we all had high hopes, but yeah.
Danielle (02:24.183)
You know, I'm laughing because I'm going to be really honest with you. I feel like I've had high hopes a few years ago, and then the past few years have been rough. They've been rough. Like, I started being really honest about it on social media. And I've had my social media community for seven, eight years now. And people are like, you've been kind of negative lately. And I'm like, I'm not being negative. I'm just being honest. Like, life has been hard lately. Like, I've had like huge ups and downs in business. I-
Meghan Houle (02:28.014)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (02:46.094)
Right.
Danielle (02:50.814)
You know, my husband and I got pregnant and had a child. Like, oh my God, that's a huge change in your life. And we've adjusted that. And I finally feel like, and I'm gonna like knock on everything possible, I finally feel like this year, I've just gotten into a flow. Business is good, life is good. We have a routine. Everyone is cruising and chilling. And that doesn't mean that there isn't going to be craziness on the horizon, but I feel like all of those cheesy,
quotes I save on Pinterest because they're just, they're too embarrassing to even like show people. It's just like, when you plant the seed is not when you'll eat the fruit. I feel like it's been seven, eight years and the fruit is finally like, here you go. Like, I feel like we're an overnight success seven years in the making.
Meghan Houle (03:26.926)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (03:31.854)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (03:35.886)
Yeah, but isn't that the case in so many ways? I think that that, and we can get into this further, sometimes where a lot of people give up is they're not seeing immediate results in a lot of aspects, right? It could be a health and wellness journey. I know you're very much into fitness early on where people get so frustrated in all the ways of like, why isn't instantly everything just coming together? Truly that is not the reality of anything that we do. Yeah, and furthermore, I mean, oh gosh.
Danielle (03:46.346)
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Meghan Houle (04:04.622)
And that so resonates with you where people are like, oh, don't be negative, where I always try to say I am not a toxic positive person. I'm an optimist, glass half full, but probably with wine of like, don't sit next to me if you don't want to hear the truth, truly. And sometimes we just need to speak it and release it.
Danielle (04:06.222)
Yes.
Danielle (04:23.259)
Yes!
Meghan Houle (04:29.326)
Because as we know, sitting in those, whether it's like negative or frustration, sometimes it just has to be released and you move on. But people, we're gonna have bad days. So everyone calm down. So, amen.
Danielle (04:41.77)
I think we just created this world online where everyone wants to just be happy because people like happy people, et cetera, et cetera. But then people then have bad days and they think, okay, something's wrong with me because I'm not just having a bad day, I'm having a hard season. And that's called the human experience, people, right? And they don't think that anyone else is experiencing the same-ish that they are because no one else is saying it or sharing it or being vulnerable. And I think that we're doing a huge disservice.
Meghan Houle (05:00.814)
And now.
Danielle (05:11.978)
to everyone, we're doing a huge disservice to our friends, our families, ourselves. You know, we can't just keep slapping a smile and saying, oh, I'm fine, I'm fine, because not only are you lying to the people who you're trying to elevate, you're lying to yourself, which means you're not giving people the opportunity to help you. It's the worst thing that you can do, and I've learned it so firsthand, so there.
Meghan Houle (05:31.982)
Yeah. No, well, thank you for saying that. I mean, it's such a push and pull of when you get to just in general, just being any online personality, social, corporate, whatever, like what do I share, what do I not share? And for me, I mean, what was it last week? Who knows? I'm like sitting here like crying in my car, and I feel like for me, oh yeah, people are like, oh, Megan gets sad. And I was like, Megan gets sad a lot.
but we don't really talk about it. But I think people, they put us as this pedestal of an individual of like, ooh, if I'm having a bad day, I'm gonna turn to Megan and I'm gonna load on her and I'm gonna text her all the thing. But I don't think what people realize is, especially for you and I do, at times some of those people on the other end, we're holding a ton of space for other people. And your text could be one of 37 that come through where sometimes Danielle, I just...
I can't even respond because I know it's probably not going to be great. So you just need a minute and like, cool, you don't need to get back to also people like right away. I think that's another thing and I'm excited to talk to all things business. But the expectation around how people believe you should respond is truly like the pattern of how you've acted right before. So if people know me, I'm like, oh, I get right back. Megan is right back. So it's out of character.
If I'm not constantly texting until I close my eyes at night, and I'm just not subscribing to that anymore either. So I think there's been kind of a shift there too of the level and amount of access people have to me. But you have to control that boundary. So big responsibilities over here.
Danielle (07:17.55)
Mmm, preach. I, it's just, you know, again, it's like this world online that we've created that we're always available, we're always on our phones, we're always, and you know, I mean, we can talk all about what I do, but I fired somebody recently because they send an email, I don't reply within 12 hours, they follow up, they follow up on Instagram, they follow up again, and I finally just, and they did it three times, they didn't just do it once, they did it on, and then on the third time, the third,
like sequence of email follow-up craziness. I finally just said, we've talked about this. This is not how I work. I am gonna decline working with you moving forward. And they were like, they were non-gracious about it, which is totally fine. But I said, do you realize that we're not even compatible in how we communicate? And so that is like just protecting a boundary of, if people are always expecting you to be on, they're not respecting you as a person, they're not respecting your boundaries. And if, thank God I'm in a position to
Meghan Houle (07:54.798)
Right.
Meghan Houle (08:04.046)
Right.
Danielle (08:15.286)
decline paid work, but I know that's not all of our cases, but it is, it's just this like instant like, reply back to me, Megan, this and that. And sometimes what people need when they wanna talk to you and they want an instant reply is they also wanna dump like all of their emotions onto you, where it's like, oh, and I'm dealing with this huge problem and I need you to fix it for me. Like.
I'm sure you deal with that with your candidates who are like, oh, Megan, I'm so stressed out about this job, and I need you to make me feel better. And it's like, OK, well, bro, like, I have feelings too, and I might be in it too, and I don't have space or energy to then give you the minuscule amount I have left for myself.
Meghan Houle (08:37.774)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (08:46.766)
Right.
Meghan Houle (08:51.15)
I know. Or like to like take a minute to go to a gym class and like not come out and be like, where are you? And you're like Apple phone watch is like blowing up and all the things. So no, I feel like this is such a big, big move, a big conversation. But to continue on with this and we'll put a pin in it, but I want to hear too and be able to give our listeners insights into your interesting career pivots because I know you've had some.
pretty big ones in terms of industries and working within big corporate entities to now solo entrepreneurship and managing all this business. What would you say career-wise or what has been some of your most memorable pivot points? Walk us through some of those big juicy pivots.
Danielle (09:40.442)
Mm-hmm. So without like giving everyone my life story, I'll do it real quickly I'm just the short life story, right? But I actually graduated college in the reception in 2008 and I ended up working for Hearst Magazines and if you know anything about the like and by the way, I'm dating myself. It's fine We're all we're all here for it But that was the first big recession and it was the crumble of the magazine industry And so I was gonna be a PR girl
and working at a magazine and I thought I like made it like Devil Wears Prada style and then everyone I knew got fired, got laid off, their magazines crumbled, they didn't have an office building the next day. And my parents who are very high performing, successful individuals were like, you know what, you should go to law school because the one thing that people can't take away from you and that is recession proof is education. Blah, fine. So that was a huge pivot for me and I think it's really stuck with me of what are things in your life that you can do for yourself.
that people can't take away from you during layoffs. People can't take away from you during illness or sickness. What is it that will make you who you are? So I went to law school, graduated, got a job at a big law firm, which is like suits but not nearly as sexy or cool, made a lot of money, took my soul away from me, and after about three years, my husband, now husband, sat me down and was like, listen.
I love you, I wanna spend my life with you, you are a miserable human being. You're a great human being outside of work, but work is literally killing you. Quit, go figure out what you wanna do with your life, take everything you have and go do that. And that was kind of that second pivot and that second nobody can take away from you what's inside of you, right? You have this experience, you have this education, you have this way of thinking, communicating with people, working with people. It went from working with Fortune 500, 150 companies,
huge VCs, investors, et cetera. And I just was like, I'm gonna go eat, pray, love it. And I went back to my athlete roots. So here's my second pivot. I went back to who I have always been, an athlete. I was a collegiate athlete. Eventually went on to be sponsored by Nike. Like it's been a fun ride getting to bring fitness into my life. And I started going to the gym a lot because what do you do when you're unemployed? You just, you kind of like, you either become one with the couch or you get out of the house. And so that's what I did. And...
Meghan Houle (11:34.286)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (11:51.806)
I ended up getting picked up by Equinox. They're a bougie trendy gym all over the country and they trained me to be a fitness instructor because they said, you're great with people, you have great presence, you're very athletic, you know your body, like let's go. And I had to make this pivot from being this like powerful corporate attorney to quote unquote just an instructor, right? Huge ego check, huge salary check, everything.
And I then kind of realized you're on this weird path for a reason. And the reason was, and this is like the big pivot that's led me down this road, is that I realized that fitness and wellness brands, fast forward, we're now in about 2016, friends. This is the age that SoulCycle was getting VC and PE money. This was the age where we were taking really big corporate principles and investments and injecting them into these quote unquote smaller brands. And we were watching them explode. Next Health, One Health, SoulCycle.
Meghan Houle (12:22.446)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (12:41.582)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Danielle (12:43.47)
Core Power Yoga, right? You guys all know these household brands. They originally started with bootcamp, yes, yes. And so we started with these small brands and we watched them explode. And I was thinking there's a way to do this on a smaller scale that also has impact. And it was take what you know about being an attorney, take what you know about running businesses on the corporate side, take what you know about being an investor in businesses and running investments. And now take it to these individual businesses.
Meghan Houle (12:45.87)
I feel like Barry's bootcamp, right? Yeah, like Barry's. Yeah. Wow.
Danielle (13:12.01)
and teach them how to be really freaking bad ass and how to elevate themselves, how to not just do it legally, but with teams, with systems, with scalable procedures and policies and see what happens. And it's funny, because we call this the pivot with purpose and it's like every time I pivoted, I had zero purpose, but what you realize is that you connect the dots at the end of it, right? As you're walking down this path, you're like, oh, that's why I had to do that. That's why I had to make this transition. And I think at the end of the day,
Meghan Houle (13:35.598)
Yeah.
Danielle (13:41.866)
You know, all of us are just trying to figure out where we wanna be and what makes us happy and what makes us feel like we have purpose. And that these pivots are just such a beautiful opportunity to say, this isn't quite it, so I'm gonna tweak it and just keep moving in that direction of my purpose. You know?
Meghan Houle (13:57.998)
Mm-hmm. And also, too, there's just so much fear in those pivots, which I think really get people so stuck of that unknown and, you know, all the other things that come through. But was there a career pivot? And thank you for sharing all of that. From suits to like fitness, like Equinox Star, I love it. Also love suits. Shout out. Hey, Harvey, Spectre, I love you. Was there a pivot gone wrong, so to speak? And maybe how did you get back on track?
Danielle (14:02.414)
Mmm.
Danielle (14:14.734)
No.
Meghan Houle (14:27.662)
Yeah.
Danielle (14:27.938)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, so I would say I've made two huge life-defining pivots that went totally off track. One of them was an investment. One of them was I was investing in a business. I really at one point in my life only wanted to be involved in businesses if I could be involved in it on the investor side and the operator side. And so I really wanted to come in and I'm gonna be honest with you, I was young, I had a lot of ego and I had...
too much capital, right? And so I thought, I'm going to come in and be like, I have this money, so I want to be in charge and I want to tell you what to do. And that was entirely ego speaking. And one of the other things that it did is that it put me in a position where one, you're leveraged because you have given up an actual liquid asset. And then two of it, if you don't end up working well with this person, if you don't like what they're doing, if they're not doing things ethically, legally, et cetera, you're now really stuck.
And I got myself in a position where I was really stuck. And I was working with people who I felt very duped by. I was working with people who weren't honest when I had first decided to work with them. And I think that was a really hard moment because I was part of a fitness brand when I had made this investment, I had made this step, and I had really put all of my eggs in this basket. I had gone all in, and we've all done that, right? We've all gone all in, and we've been like, I am all in, guys. Like.
Peace out, I'm gonna be right here if you need me. And then I had to about nine, 11 months later, walk away with my tail between my legs, with none of the money, with none of the community, with none of anything. And I had to say, okay, what did you learn from this? And I had to be my business partners. I had to, and I won. And so it's like, it was such a hard lesson to learn, but I think that one, like age teaches us a lot because it's just like, it kind of helps us lower down. Right, and I think that was a huge pivot. That was my first.
Meghan Houle (16:03.182)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (16:15.47)
Yeah.
Danielle (16:19.378)
moment where I realized you don't know everything, truly, and you really never want to just be just because you can go in as an investor. And by the way, investor is such a sexy term these days. It's not. It's really boring. It's not great. It shouldn't be that sexy. And that was a huge moment for me because now it's funny. I see so many of these brands asking for angel investors or friends and family investors. And it has really helped me say that is not what I want to do because of.
Meghan Houle (16:23.15)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (16:47.822)
Mm.
Danielle (16:48.766)
Y and Z. If it works for you, I'm so happy it did not work the way I wanted it to, so I'm very careful about that. I would say that was another pivot. And then another pivot that was not in my best interest was a similar situation where I didn't go into a business relationship really having vet the person I was going to work with. I made the mistake of just jumping all in without doing my research. And in doing that, I didn't...
Meghan Houle (16:54.254)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Danielle (17:16.866)
double check numbers to make sure that they were legit. I didn't vet the person to know if they were who they said they were. And it did not work out. It exploded really nicely in my face. And that's okay, right? Like, and that's okay. And I'm sharing these stories because you always wanna still trust people. You always wanna trust that what people tell you is who they are. And it's also then okay if it doesn't work out. Like it was a really humiliating couple weeks. And then guess what?
Meghan Houle (17:18.541)
Mm-mm.
Meghan Houle (17:29.71)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Danielle (17:45.11)
the world kept going, nobody remembered it. And it's like years later, nobody remembers it. And so I think that talking about our failed pivots, talking about our failed opportunities, it's great because it also, again, it reminds people like we're human too, we make mistakes too. Here's how you can learn from our mistakes.
Meghan Houle (17:48.206)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (18:02.574)
Right. Yeah, no, I was just going to say I was in a sort of kind of a community wellness event last week, and we were talking about how failures and our mistakes are to the benefit of those now ahead of us that we're educating. It's like, we've done this. You're welcome. Don't do this. But I think there's so much learning and growth in that failure. And saying, yeah, I messed up. Move on.
Danielle (18:15.333)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (18:30.35)
But sometimes that can be a hard pill to swallow, and especially to like, I remember my years coming out of corporate America, working within LVMH, working very much on the store side of things where if you made a mistake, you know, your action, you know, performance evaluation, and you're all fearful of like losing your job, and there was so much fear based in mistakes, right? Early on, especially when, you know, we're not the ones signing our paychecks, obviously. So.
Oh, God, such a curious, curious little life that we've lived in the times now that we're able to teach those and mentor those that are willing and able to work with us, which I am always so grateful for the community, and I'm sure you are too. But do you feel your pivots have led you into career satisfaction in what you're doing now?
Danielle (19:20.886)
I would say you have to say yes. I would say that I know where I want to go. And I'm very grateful for this step in my life that has allowed me to really identify that and then to move forward. And so what I would like to think is that it's part of the path now. And so whatever I do moving forward is part of the path. Because I feel like if I say, it helped, you know, like.
Meghan Houle (19:23.118)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (19:26.894)
Mmm.
Danielle (19:48.47)
I mean, like going from like magazine PR to like laws, like not exactly like the path, right? But I think it's part of like, yeah, it's part of the lesson.
Meghan Houle (19:51.15)
Yeah, wow. No, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, how do you… So tell us now, you know, in terms of how you support your client, like who is your ideal client? Like tell us a little bit about your business today because I know there's a lot of different levels and layers, which I love.
Danielle (20:14.666)
So I like to work with female-founded businesses in the wellness and health and fitness space. I work with men. I just, I love women. I love women and I can get on a whole pedestal about that, but I love female founders. I say I kind of work with them and then force a process. So I take your business from the backend and I take it from where it is to where you want it to be so that it has the infrastructure to take you where you want it to be. So what that means is we look at
the systems you have in place. And we put together a strategy of how we need to operationally organize your business, such that you have daily policies, daily systems, daily infrastructure, a foundation, so that your clients can go through that experience. Whether it's your tech stack, whether it's training your team of this is the, their day-to-day operations, whatever that looks like. And then from there, we make sure that your team is properly staffed and that your team is in place as they should be, with job descriptions, day-to-day operating tasks.
clear promotional paths, where they fall, excuse me, in the org chart, who they know who to support, et cetera, et cetera. And then we codify all of that with legal agreements. And so legal agreements, for example, if you're a service-based business, like you're a coach, you want to have your service agreement for your clients, you want to have employee contracts for your team, you want to make sure you have releases, you have all of your website documents, all of that good stuff. So what it really allows, what I like to say is...
Meghan Houle (21:22.318)
Wow.
Danielle (21:38.07)
The services I provide allow you to, as a business owner, to really shine on the front end of your business and we take care of you on the back end to make sure that all of your ducks are in a row because you know those crazy ducks, they don't stay straight very long.
Meghan Houle (21:50.03)
Yeah. Wow. That's like a full service. Holy cow. You're hired. When can I start working with you? Soon. Soon. Oh my gosh. So on this journey, so curious because I know, I mean, same. I love working with female founded brands on all ends. I mean, you know me. I'm very much hiring and recruiting and also doing the executive coaching as needed, but what would you say?
Danielle (21:57.058)
Perfect, I'll be there tomorrow. Ha ha ha.
Meghan Houle (22:16.174)
is one of the biggest mistakes you see when someone is starting off on this entrepreneurial journey. Or maybe what are you, consistently trying to course correct or trying to save someone from what we've learned? Yeah, with our failures. Yeah.
Danielle (22:34.262)
Let's be mindful of time here. So, this is a TV podcast.
Meghan Houle (22:35.566)
Yeah. You're like, is this a two-day podcast? Great. It's Coachella Pivot with Purpose. Who's on? Maybe it's coming. You know how much I love LA, so please. I feel like there's something in the works. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Danielle (22:43.202)
I'd pay for that. I'd buy VIP for that one. 2025. Napa. Napa Fairgrounds 2025. Done. So I think the biggest thing people forget when they're starting a business is that you don't need a flashy website. You don't need a K next to your Instagram followers. You need a solid product or service.
and you need people who have found a transformation in it. Sounds very cheesy, very simple. It's that easy, right? I've never once taken out a paid ad. I've been in this game for seven, eight years. My entire business is referral-based. For a long time, I didn't have a website. I've had five iterations, including my current one, which is four years old, right?
And that's not to like be self-deprecating or obnoxious. It's that you don't need those flashy things that people will tell you need. Now they're gonna tell you that because that's their job and that's okay. And that's okay for them to say, Megan, the first thing you need is a flashy website. That's their job, that's great. But what I'm telling you is I've worked with business owners who have 700 Instagram followers who make a million dollars a year. I've worked with people that have 100,000 Instagram followers that can barely crack 50,000. And the number one thing that I see that works slash that doesn't work is that you're
Meghan Houle (23:37.71)
Yeah.
Danielle (24:00.526)
putting your weight and your time and your energy in the wrong places. It should be making sure you have a rock solid product or service and making sure it does what it says it's gonna do. And that doesn't have to be something flashy. It can be as simple as I create Canva templates for Instagram and they're pretty and we can customize them to your brand colors too. I do high level executive career coaching and this is the transformation I can get you. It's that simple. And then also that answer has nothing to do even with what I do. It's just.
Meghan Houle (24:12.11)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (24:27.95)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (24:28.354)
that's what I know works. And so somebody is coming to me, for example, I have a client who I have a session with later today and she has a wellness studio and she's always tinkering with everything. And then she's like, well, why aren't the class members here working and why is this? And I'm like, you need to have consistency. You need to have one thing that works and you just need to do that every single class of the day and give clients that. And it's really that simple. And then I have people that go, oh, that's it.
Meghan Houle (24:46.446)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (24:52.27)
Yeah.
Danielle (24:55.106)
They make that switch and then boom. And then now we can focus on, okay, let's hire more people. Now we can focus on, oh, you need legal agreements but you couldn't afford it yet. Great, get the basics down.
Meghan Houle (25:05.006)
Yeah. Oh, that's such good advice. I'm here taking mental notes so I can pay attention because I absolutely have gotten bamboozled, I love that word, with the, you need the $20,000 website and da da da that converts zero ROI. And the vanity, I think it's like the vanity in our business. Why do you think we're caught up in the vanity? I feel like social media is just like…
Truly, they think that it's all about how you look, but it's truly the substance. Why do you think there's so much vanity going on right now? I've caught up on how things look. People are getting bamboozled also from businesses. You know? Right?
Danielle (25:42.51)
Right?
Danielle (25:48.462)
I have a client currently who's doing a really large known coaching program for the same reason. And she goes, I just got so bamboozled in this. And it's really sad to see it where she was like, it was so flashy and they took us on this really fancy retreat. And then it went completely down the dumpster. And I think people were so drawn based on social media to beautiful things, right? Because at any given moment, we can open up a page. We can see the most...
Meghan Houle (26:12.238)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (26:16.63)
beautiful place on earth, we can see a beautiful vacation. You could make my water bottle look pretty, right? Because people who are so much more creative than I will ever be can do that. And so we think that the only things that have value then are things that are that curated and beautiful, right? I don't know why that is, but it just, it is a fact.
Meghan Houle (26:30.51)
Like vanity. Yeah, yeah.
Meghan Houle (26:37.486)
Yeah. So anyone listening, I mean, just go for substance. You know, go for… And I mean, it's kind of causing me a pause to, you know, very much take a step back. And as you know, very much like you, juggling all different levels and layers of my business, you get so stressed out because I think you are at times focusing on too many things, where you are working at like 10,000 feet in the business. And it's like, what are you missing out on?
Danielle (26:41.975)
Bye!
Meghan Houle (27:05.838)
by just not honing in on your zone of genius and doing business development or making sure your classes are amazing or showing up for these, whether you have a coaching app or community and bringing the best content or taking time. I mean, my dream, Danielle, and maybe this can also be a dream when we go out to nap is, I always tell my husband, I'm like, I just want a weekend where I can sit and create.
Right? Oh my God, doesn't sound like a dream. That's our dream. We're like, nobody talk to us and let's sit with our computers and great. Because sometimes you just have to truly get into that flow. I find myself very distracted lately where I've had to pull myself in and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't be all these things. You absolutely cannot. And I think as I continue to kind of build business things and very much listening to you, it's like hire the people that can do the things that you know you're not good at.
Because what are you missing out on by taking the eye off the prize, so to speak? Or in showing up with crappy content because people, they don't forget that. They don't. I think that's the harder thing. People will be like, oh, she's crying on Instagram. Oh, she had a bad day. But when someone's investing their money in, yeah, sure, things can kind of go along. But investing in you and then hoping. And of course, we know coaching and any business thing.
you have to put in the work too, right? It's not just like a magic potion that we're waving wands and like, you're saved. But at the end of the day, it is disappointing. No, when you sign up and it's just not what you think, I know, but do you get people that are like, Danielle, here, take my business. And then like, they wanna do like the least work and you're like, no, I mean, I can take you places, but like, you can't do it all for your clients as well, which leads me into this question talking about the client experience.
Yeah, I mean, what advice would you give to someone who's dealing with challenging clients and like vetting clients? Yeah, like how do you do it? Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Danielle (29:07.47)
This is one of my favorite topics and it's coming from a place that I've spent the majority of my life being a people pleaser. I still joke about it, but I really am. I inherently want to do right by people, by over delivering, by killing myself in the process, and for them to give me a gold star. It is a discussion in therapy. And I can at least own it now in a self-deprecating way because I candidly think it was something about our generation. That's how we all grew up, just being people pleasers.
Meghan Houle (29:13.966)
same.
Meghan Houle (29:19.438)
Yep.
Meghan Houle (29:32.846)
I know, yeah.
Danielle (29:34.97)
in business and particularly in a business where what I do can be very transactional. So for example, somebody came to me and was like, I'm having an issue with my landlord. Can I talk to you? And I just said, yeah, but like, let me send you an invoice first. And they were so upset. And I was like, a conversation with me is literally me giving you advice of what to do. If you're like, my landlord is doing X, Y, and Z, what should I do? It's not like we're friends to start with. I'm going to bill you for my expertise. Right?
Meghan Houle (30:01.39)
Right. Yeah. No, I mean, that's so smart. Yeah, yeah.
Danielle (30:03.758)
Where I'm going with this whole full circle is that I got taken advantage of for a really long time because I wanted to help people because I have a really specialized knowledge that to me is so inherent that I realize most people don't have. I could talk your ear off about why you should have an escort versus an LLC or how to deal with your landlord or how to hire someone or what your employment agreement should say, but that to me is so inherently ingrained in me.
which is such a blessing. But because of that, I would find myself constantly just giving away all of my advice, which is my product, my service. And people would be like, hey, do you have 20 minutes for me to pick your brain? And I'd be like, oh, it's only 20 minutes. And I did this for years, Megan. I have left so much money on the table that my husband could just literally murder me, right? And what it really made me then start to feel was resentment. Just being very honest was that people would say, hey, can I pick your brain for 20 minutes?
Meghan Houle (30:39.31)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (30:58.83)
And then that 20 minutes turned into 30 to 45. And then I was like, well, I didn't bill them. I didn't say I was gonna bill them. So do I send them a bill now? What do I do? And I spent years doing that. Like I spent years of trying so hard to please people and then getting kind of walked all over, not kind of like super walked all over. And what that really made me start to do was start to get thicker skin and to say, I would be more than happy to help you, Megan, but I'm just to be really clear.
this is gonna be a paid session, this is how much it costs. If that's not within your wheelhouse, let me know when it is. And it has taken me so long to have that confidence. I had a client yesterday cancel on our session because so just how I work really transparently is like you book a session, you get sent an invoice, and then we can talk. But I don't talk to people without them paying because this has happened so much. And this person got really upset with me and they were just like.
Meghan Houle (31:29.454)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (31:34.094)
Yep.
Meghan Houle (31:43.982)
Yep. Yeah.
Danielle (31:51.95)
I'm not paying you, I've never even talked to you, this and that, and I was like, well then that's fine. We're not gonna talk. But it's taking me that long to get to that point. And so very full circle of where we're going with this is you have to, as a business owner, really identify what your boundaries are. For me, that is a boundary that I do not ever wanna feel like people are only talking to me because it's a transaction, or they're only talking to me to take advantage of what I know. And that is for me personally.
Meghan Houle (31:57.806)
Right. Yeah.
Danielle (32:21.87)
I have a lot of friends who are in the aesthetics industry. They're aestheticians. People will DM them and say, can you put together a skincare routine for me? And then they'll recommend things, and then they'll be upset that these people didn't buy them from them. And so you as a business owner have to look at the product or service you're offering and say, where is my boundary? Of what am I willing to do for people?
Meghan Houle (32:35.63)
Yeah.
Danielle (32:42.126)
as a good human being, as part of my sales policy, as part of my marketing funnel, and where does it become part of the transaction such that people should be compensating me for my expertise? And that's always the line I go back to. We are all so wise, we are all so smart.
Megan, I remember one point you and I had a conversation about something professional and I was like, oh my God, should I be paying her for her time because she is sharing her expertise with me? She's shaking her head, no, she should have sent me an invoice. But like really truly, right? And so we have to decide in our business where are our boundaries. For you, Megan, you get people who are like, hey, I'd love for you to be my recruiter and find me a job. And you're like, cool, can I have a $10,000 retainer first, please?
Meghan Houle (33:21.902)
Right. You're like, cool. Also, that's not recruiter's suit. I know that this is also another podcast. But wow, like everything you're saying is so and I'm sure like people get that all the time. Listening in for the business owners. I know I work with across all different service offerings, you know.
Danielle (33:25.87)
Yeah.
Danielle (33:37.774)
Yeah. And I think what's hard is that you have to understand the first time you say it, it's going to be like doing a pull up and 99% of us can't do a pull up. You're just like struggling to hold on, right? Or you're like, oh my God, I'm so scared. I remember the first time I had to have this conversation with somebody about like payment and rates. My palms were sweating and like I was sweating. You know, just like so gross. And then as you do it more, it's like a muscle. You're flexing it. It gets easier. It gets easier. It gets easier. But what the thing is, is that you have to decide where your boundaries are.
Meghan Houle (33:46.606)
Uh huh.
Danielle (34:06.926)
professionally, you have to know that the first 10 times you're going to do it, it's going to be so hard, it's going to suck, you might cry afterwards. Find the friend you can cry to. Find the person who's going to text you that hype up. I will always be that person because it is something I will die on this hill that women inherently are caretakers and nurturers. So when people come to us and ask for help, we want to help because that's just who we freaking are, right? And so that ends up being that you're giving away free services, you're giving away too much product, you're giving away your expertise.
Meghan Houle (34:18.19)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (34:27.661)
Right. Yeah.
Danielle (34:36.11)
I am valuable and you should be paying me for this. And I think after you've done it enough times or you've been taken advantage of enough times or whatever that may be, you just start to not care because then you realize that people are only coming to you so they can take advantage of you. Those aren't your people anyways.
Meghan Houle (34:46.158)
I know.
Meghan Houle (34:50.926)
Yeah. Literally, did you just go into my soul for the past two months? Truly. I feel like I just had an exorcism. No, but that, I mean, and you know, because my next question for you is going to be about hiring, I feel like it's been this re-education, like Lauren Hill, re-education of like…
Danielle (34:58.318)
I'm sorry.
Meghan Houle (35:15.854)
teaching people how to approach and work with you. And in my industry, being a recruiter and being on the client side, so as you know, we're not agents for people. There is such a misconception of like, well, you should wanna take a call with me and I wanna work with a recruiter and why wouldn't you wanna get to know me and let me tell you about my hopes and my dreams. I'm like, can anyone listening imagine in? And I love helping people, but imagine for free 99.
with the inquiries I get daily. I literally – I'm still living at home with my parents. I'd be in offstate New York in my childhood bedroom. No. I think the girl math ain't mathed. I unfortunately don't have time for everyone to be able to do that. Although, sure, recruiters want to build relationships.
just like you, you know, you're a business owner entrepreneur. Like, yeah, you want to like build meaningful relationships with people that you hope will appreciate and come and work with you. Oh gosh, there's those fine lines. And I've been feeling myself getting frustrated over the past months of like.
not wanting to like help anybody anymore. So you don't want to get to that point where you're just like putting such bad energy behind it that it's like really like ruining all the things that you're like building. So I so appreciate that and I so appreciate you and I'm definitely working on some things to flip it. It's like fine, you know, here's and you do it. Here's like my Insta. You can follow. I have a podcast. I have a free newsletter. You know, there's a lot of things that you can do to access me. But the magic if I'm spending 30 to
Danielle (36:23.79)
Bye.
Meghan Houle (36:48.814)
Literally, people have locked me down for like an hour and I'm like, my house is on fire. Like I have to go, bye. Like I can't spend any more time on the phone with you. You leave that and like it just sucks the life out of you. And it's not even about money. It's just like, I don't know, that's a whole other conversation. I know. So not equal. No, I love that. Well, thank you for sharing that and just being so open about that because I've been sitting with a lot of heaviness and frustration around that.
Danielle (37:02.798)
It's not an equal energy exchange. Not an equal energy exchange to you.
Danielle (37:15.054)
Yeah
Meghan Houle (37:15.662)
So in terms of hiring, which I know you'd love to do too, what are some of your strategies when you work one-on-one with your clients, you know, and sitting down and like really mapping out talent, do you help them like map out their talent strategies and sort of recruit alongside of them? Like what have you seen over the past few years of like finding good talent out there? Like talk to me about all of the hiring and then the internal recruiting you do on your end of your business as well, yeah.
Danielle (37:42.19)
I'm curious how you're gonna, I'm curious about what you're gonna say about all this because like you're the queen and so I feel like I'm like okay well this is gonna be an education for me too. So I think the biggest thing with businesses is going back to what I was saying I have this four-step process and the first thing we do is we really look at where do you want your business to go and the second thing then is we start to put a strategy to that and we start to identify where you know you as either a solo business owner,
Meghan Houle (37:47.598)
Yeah, yeah, tell me, tell me. Mm-hmm. No, you're doing great, sweetie. You're doing great, sweetie.
Danielle (38:12.014)
or a business owner who already has a team, really looking at people's existing jobs where there is a hole in the company, where there needs to be more skill in the company, where people aren't really aligned in their jobs, right? So it's a deeper dive than just a, okay, what are you looking to hire? So for example, if someone comes to me and says, hey, I'm looking to hire a club manager for my wellness business, and I need someone to like take charge, because I'm tired of taking charge.
That's really not what's happening in your business. What's happening is that the people who are the individual contributors aren't individual contributing. They're not doing their jobs properly. Maybe we need to train them better. Maybe we need to hire people that actually contribute. The people who are selling, are they properly trained salespeople? Do they sell enough? Do they know how to sell? Do they have marketing back channels to support their sales numbers? And then from there, we kind of say, what needs to get done on a daily basis, a monthly basis, whatever. What can we offload off of you as a leader?
Whether you are the CEO, the vice president, the director, whatever level you're at, if you're hiring someone underneath you, what can we offload onto you, onto this person? How does this person report up to you and manage you? Is this person going to be reporting down and managing other people? Really putting together on paper this dream role person. You have to create that first because if you don't know what you're looking for, what you're trying to hire for, you will hire 10,000 percent the wrong person.
Meghan Houle (39:31.086)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (39:37.294)
Yeah.
Danielle (39:38.446)
identifying where the business is today, where it needs to go in the next one year, two years. I never say five years because you're not gonna get five years out of a person. You know this too. And so where is this person gonna be in one to two years, let's say? How are they gonna pull the business forward? How are we gonna measure that they're pulling the business forward? And now let's look for key traits based on all the things we know we need and kind of key markers. If your business is really big on hospitality, should we be searching for someone who was in a truck?
Meghan Houle (39:46.158)
No, yeah, yeah.
Danielle (40:06.51)
traditional hospitality role? Do they need to have any sort of certification or expertise? And then we have a rock solid candidate profile such that when we publish it, that person who's reading it can either say, yes, that is me or no, that is not. And now we're not wasting anyone's time because the worst thing is like, I'm all for, I'm a woman, I'm a woman of color, I'm all for.
Meghan Houle (40:08.59)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (40:17.934)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (40:24.942)
Right.
Danielle (40:31.406)
Everyone who wants to try to apply, apply, but I'm also for not wasting people's time. And so if we know the job is not for you, we should make it really clear. The job is for you if you are X, Y, Z, A, B, C, you have these skills, this experience, and you're ready to do this, right? And then the goal is that if the person reading it is like, oh, I don't really fit into this, this probably isn't for me, they're not gonna waste your time going through an interview process to say, I want more money, I can't do this, I'm not comfortable managing people, et cetera.
Meghan Houle (40:35.854)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (40:59.598)
Right, yeah.
Danielle (41:00.366)
So for me, it's being, I am just freakishly transparent with people and it's always, how can I be as transparent as possible to be the most efficient as possible? Because hiring is also an incredibly time suck of our lives and it's expensive because you're bringing in leaders, you're bringing in directors, VP, CEOs, founders, you're bringing in that level of person. Their hourly rate, guys, is a lot higher than maybe.
Meghan Houle (41:07.246)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (41:12.814)
Yes. Yeah.
Danielle (41:25.742)
mine is, right? So like we want to make sure that we're being really, really purposeful once we get people in front of them such that it becomes a vibe check and it becomes maybe a skills test.
Meghan Houle (41:26.446)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (41:34.638)
Yeah. And dying to hear your thought on this because I'm like getting ready to post about it tomorrow. But yeah, what is the cost to your business when you do make a hiring mistake? Like what have you seen? I mean, time and everything, but like we can't rush. It's also a process, but like what have you seen from a cost point of view where people just really make, or what do they lose by making a really bad hiring mistake? Yeah. Yeah.
Danielle (41:46.862)
Oh my god.
Danielle (42:01.006)
I love this question because I had somebody recently, like six months ago, say, okay, I really need your help hiring, but I only want to pay like $500 total. They were like, I want to hire you. I really need help hiring. I'm only willing to pay you like $500. And I was like, okay, let's just table that one then. But why that's so funny to me is because let's talk about the cost of hiring. First of all, you're hiring somebody to move your business forward, whether or not they are a run of...
Meghan Houle (42:10.126)
Wait, what?
Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Right, uh-huh.
Danielle (42:29.07)
a revenue generating individual, they should ultimately drive the revenue of your business for it. I don't care if they are a front desk person, a copywriter, a salesperson, me as an attorney, whatever that role is, should contribute to your bottom line. So that's number one. So not having this role is impacting your bottom line. Having an underperformer is impacting your bottom line. So that's cost right there. Number two is time between hiring somebody like Megan, who's going to recruit me, who's going to put together an entire like candidate profile.
Meghan Houle (42:37.166)
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Meghan Houle (42:44.334)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (42:58.478)
You're investing in that time. Now you are going through an interview process, which is three to five hours minimum, plus all your energy of reading resumes, talking to them via email, bringing in other team members whose hourly rate you're paying. Now let's bring them into the company. You gotta train them. You have to legally pay employees when you're training them. That's another one week, three weeks, three months, depending on when you let this person go.
Meghan Houle (43:05.198)
Uh-huh.
Danielle (43:24.814)
And now you've not only invested all that time training them, your business hasn't moved forward, so that's lost revenue. You've taken up everyone's time and energy. That's three months of lost everything. And you have to start back from zero again, and hopefully do it a little bit smarter. It can be anywhere from a couple thousand dollars of tangible impact to tens of thousands of dollars, depending on the size of the role in the organization, of just tangible money that you've left on the table, because you didn't wanna do it.
Meghan Houle (43:25.198)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (43:38.254)
Right. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (43:46.574)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (43:51.854)
systematically, sequentially, purposefully, and you just wanted to hire the first person because you were doing it out of desperation. Hiring out of desperation, the universe smells it, and they're like, not for you.
Meghan Houle (43:58.574)
Right. Yeah.
No. Well, and I think so the key to that and maybe what you're just saying is like the transparency and then also the super clear job expectations, like super clear outline of like really creating this candidate profile and the job they're aligning to and just like every step of the way. This is what it is internally, externally, pay, all of that. This is how we operate. This is our
Danielle (44:12.43)
Yes.
Meghan Houle (44:32.142)
sugar coating or hiding or bamboozling any part of the process. But I just feel like you have to be thorough and it may take a little more time. But I think the cost of the time versus the overall cost is still saving you money in the long run when you do it correctly. So yes.
Danielle (44:50.99)
Absolutely. The other thing is that someone like Megan is literally trained in this. This is her job. Why would you, as a person who this is not your job, take it upon yourself to do a task which you are not skilled or an expert in doing? That's what I keep going back to. Why don't you let someone who is the expert do this for your business to help your business grow? And it becomes an ego thing at the same time.
Meghan Houle (45:10.126)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (45:16.686)
Yeah.
Danielle (45:19.79)
Oh, I've built this business where I can do this. I know exactly what we need. You don't, like, I'm sorry.
Meghan Houle (45:24.654)
Right. No. I think what some founders or business owners find is like, well, a partner, no one's going to be able to tell my story like you or no one, you know, whenever. Will you hire us to become almost this third party extension of your brand? Where I mean, this is how I operate. Maybe why I'm a lot different than a lot of other recruiters out there is like, I care. Furthermore, I want to get to know the ins and outs of who you are and your company culture.
I think on top of that, being an accredited coach and all I've been doing for 20 years is asking people questions. Very quickly, we can get to the root of someone's motivation. I can sniff out probably in 30 seconds too if I truly feel like someone's looking to pivot with purpose for the right reasons. The bachelor version of finding a job, do it for the right reasons. But no, that's truly it. You can't have somebody that's fueled by money.
titles, all of it. I mean, there has to be so much that goes into it. So I love you for saying that. Thank you. And I know what you do is so helpful. And in terms of like building teams and asking you this like juicy question, I have been working with some brands that are also struggling with employees who are in their business currently that are quote unquote trying to poke holes in the business, stealing IP.
stealing intellectual property, which can be so, so tricky. So what advice would you give for somebody who maybe is sitting on an employee right now that's trying to quote unquote poke holes in their business? Or do you counsel a lot of your business owners and founders on that a lot? Yeah, because then that comes in the legal side of it too. Right, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Danielle (47:08.526)
Yeah, so I mean, two things, first and foremost, this is maybe not the most popular opinion, but again, like I'm a millennial, I'm gonna age myself. If you work for someone, it's their business. I know that we sometimes get into this push-pull right now, especially on social media about like how employees should be treated. I think employees should be treated with everything but dignity. I think you should be paid well. I think you should have all of those things. However, you still work for someone else. You do not get to go into someone else's house and break things.
Meghan Houle (47:20.334)
Right.
Danielle (47:37.038)
Right? It's the same concept. And so if you're an employee and you are starting a revolution, if you are poking holes, you are within your right to, because we live in this great country that gives us the right of free speech and free press and all those other things. And you can say what you want to say. They also have the right to put you on a performance plan to sit you down to hire or to fire you. And so I think that one, there's a difference between like employee dissatisfaction of, oh, I'm not happy with how we're doing X, Y, and Z. Have a conversation. That's a culture issue.
Meghan Houle (47:55.118)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (48:05.454)
where you've created a culture at your company where people don't feel comfortable going to management. Listen, I don't wanna listen to people complain, but as a manager, it's part of your job. And so there's a difference between needing to create a culture where people feel comfortable expressing their feelings versus having employees who are flat out stealing. Now, if they're flat out stealing, we can just fire them. I have no qualms about that, but let's make sure that you have an employee contract that's really explicit about what the company actually owns.
Meghan Houle (48:13.678)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (48:26.446)
Yeah.
Danielle (48:31.31)
Let's have an employee agreement where we are very clear about what they can do with the information that they've learned while working for you. And if you don't have that, you don't really have a leg to stand on. And so I never want to point fingers and say there to blame, you're to blame. I think that there's always room for improvement on all sides. What I want to come back to is that as an employer, you should make sure that you are rock solid secure. And if you're not, that is on you as an employer, as a business owner.
Meghan Houle (48:37.518)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (48:48.142)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (48:53.518)
Yep. Right.
Yeah.
Danielle (49:01.166)
a boat rocker and they are not good for culture, they're not good for productivity, they're not good for business. It's also on you to end that relationship. And that's the unfortunate thing that I will say, you know, when people talk about, well, you work for someone else, you do. And, you know, I tend to work with business owners, so my comments tend to be a little more business owner friendly and focused. But I think that also we as business owners,
Meghan Houle (49:09.806)
and
Meghan Houle (49:16.622)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (49:23.31)
Yeah.
Danielle (49:26.286)
need to not be afraid that we're going to get sued if we fire somebody. We need to not be afraid that we're going to be canceled on social media for speaking up. That it is still a synergistic relationship of an employee and an employer. And, you know, maybe we have to be the grownups in the room, unfortunately, but we have to then be the grownups in the
Meghan Houle (49:35.214)
Right.
Meghan Houle (49:44.334)
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so powerful. And you even think about within corporate companies, theft. It's just, I've seen it at the retail level where individuals think they contribute a certain amount to the business and like, I deserve this and I'm owed this. I'm like, I'm sorry, if you're trying to also steal a $700 wallet, no, unfortunately, that's not the payment
Danielle (49:57.198)
Wow.
Meghan Houle (50:12.974)
And I also just feel like it is something from a performance side that has to be addressed immediately and also fair and consistent because I'm sure there, and I've seen a lot of teams that have been built early on with somebody's friends, sisters, cousins, Aunt Sally, and it's a bunch of like family members and friends. And then...
who may not know so much about the role that they're in, but they're doing okay. And then you bring in an expert and then it kind of becomes like a mean person's club where they're like that they're the outsider because they're not the expert, but they're not Aunt Sally's cousin. So it's all these things that go into hiring, firing, but at the end of the day, it's strategy, clear and specific expectations, being fair and consistent and protecting your A-S-S.
That is it. That is like the secret sauce. What would you say to somebody who maybe Danielle's felt like they've hit rock bottom or been canceled? I don't know if you have any taking this, but getting back on your feet, taking that power back. Because it's not easy. And sometimes you don't want to step away from your business. Sometimes you have to. But if someone's hit rock bottom, what advice would you give to maybe get back into it? Yeah, just curious. Yeah.
Danielle (51:31.022)
Yeah. Yeah. So earlier when you asked about like my two pivots that didn't go well, those are my two rock bottoms. Like one, like I said, I had to sue my ex business partners, had a lot of money invested in that business. I took a long time to get the money back. I lost my community. I can tell you like in life, that was a defining moment for me. And then the other pivot being working with somebody who just wasn't who they said they were. And I had to start over again.
Meghan Houle (51:36.206)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (52:00.878)
as cheesy as this sounds, rock bottom means you've stopped falling. It is a solid place to pick yourself back up, put your feet on the ground and be where you are. And I'm saying this as someone who has hit rock bottom really hard, right? Like really, really hard. Like luckily I've not been canceled on social media yet, but like it's just, it was so publicly humiliating for me, you know, especially in LA, it's a small town and small industry, but sometimes we feel like we're falling and we feel very out of control.
Meghan Houle (52:05.742)
Mmm.
Meghan Houle (52:10.094)
Uh huh.
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (52:24.014)
Yeah.
Danielle (52:28.462)
And at least when you've hit the bottom, you know you're done falling, right? That's number one. The next thing is, is you can put your feet on the ground and you can be exactly where your feet are. And you can say, I'm at the lowest point I'm ever gonna be, and guess what? It's not gonna get worse, and it's gonna go up from here. I am going to rebuild myself. I am going to step out of this hole that I am in, and.
Meghan Houle (52:31.086)
Right, yeah.
Danielle (52:48.686)
You know, the other thing is, is you get to know really quickly who those people are who literally don't care about where you're sitting. You know, they don't care if you're in a private plane, they'll hang out with you on the back of the bus. That's what I always say. Like you learn really quickly who your people are. And you also learn who your people aren't. And that's okay. That is a blessing. And so if you have fallen before, congratulations, you're among the greats. It means you tried. It means you stood up for something. It means you did something. And
Meghan Houle (52:55.726)
Yeah.
Right. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (53:06.894)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (53:10.702)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (53:16.526)
There's this quote from a movie, oh my god, is it like Notting Hill, where it's like, today's headlines are gonna line tomorrow's waste paper bins, where it's like, you think it's the biggest deal in the world because it's the biggest deal in your world today, someone is gonna go be a dumb dumb dumb tomorrow, and they're gonna trump you. And we're gonna be talking about them instead. And then next week no one's gonna care because something's gonna happen on E. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay as someone who has fallen on their face so hard, so publicly twice. It's great.
Meghan Houle (53:22.99)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (53:28.142)
Right.
Right. And that's it. True. Yeah.
Meghan Houle (53:39.63)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (53:45.39)
Yep. Yeah, that's great. Get back up. Well, before I let you go, what advice would you give to somebody who is pivoting maybe from a corporate job into the land of entrepreneurship? Yeah.
Danielle (53:58.03)
Yeah, number one thing that I always tell people is you know so much more than you realize. Like going back to the skills that no one can take away from you, you might say, and I'm not saying this at all, you might say, oh, Danielle, I'm just a coordinator. I'm just a assistant, right? You're not just, first of all. Second of all, you know how to be organized. You know how to play nice with other people. You know how to show up somewhere on time. You know how to be accountable for things. You know how to work.
across functions to create a project. Like, you know so much more than you are giving yourself credit for. Those are all translatable skills, right? And again, you might be at like a director level and then think like, how will I ever make as much money or how will I ever have as much whatever? Like, the money will come, the prestige will come. Put your ego aside. You don't need to be the director or the president or whatever. You need to be happy. You need to enjoy your life. If you're pivoting on a corporate, especially to pursue a better lifestyle,
Meghan Houle (54:32.974)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (54:48.942)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (54:54.574)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (54:54.67)
Nobody cares what your job title is except you. They care if you walk into a room and you're a happy, glowing individual who makes other people feel good about themselves. And so I think a lot of it comes down to our own egos because that's what corporate America teaches us is we have to like climb and you know, and that's where our worth is. And then I think the people who are pivoting out of corporate are doing it now because they realize that they can make money, they can be happy, they can have a good life.
Meghan Houle (54:58.478)
Mmm.
Meghan Houle (55:05.23)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (55:11.63)
Climb, climb, climb, yep. Yep.
Danielle (55:22.094)
Focus on how your life feels and that nothing matters.
Meghan Houle (55:23.982)
Yeah. Oh, gosh. Such incredible advice and thank you for that and also so resonate with that corporate climb and a lot of individuals I work with like, oh, we got to see this on the resume. I got to see this. I'm like, no, we got to drop it. It all levels now. So many companies are calling things different names and blah, blah, blah. It's just like, oh, titles. But if, yeah, I mean, what does joy look like for you? How can you show up and just...
Be a person that other people want to be around and bring joy to other people's lives. Have a moment, feel the feels, but just show up a whole human, which I know there's just people that are cut out for corporate. It's amazing, like seriously, we love and appreciate all the corporate brands, but I think for anyone listening, again, a lot of entrepreneurs out there or people that are just inspiring entrepreneurs that don't think that they can do it, you can.
And there are so many resources and incredible people that can help you get there, including Danielle. So what is the best way someone can work with you or find you, engage with you? What platforms do you love and how can someone connect with you? Yeah.
Danielle (56:34.446)
Yeah, thank you. So, elder millennial, we live on Instagram, at danielle.stud, and DM me, reach out, let me know if you listen to the conversation, let me know if you have questions about hiring, and then from there, I can always help you steer in the right direction of, do you need legal, do you need strategy, should we book a one-on-one session, how should that work, but I live there, so come find me and say hi.
Meghan Houle (56:38.19)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Houle (56:56.942)
And I know too, before that you also have a podcast, which I think is like amazing free advice, really, of like getting inside your head or talking about certain hot topics. So tell us a little bit more about your podcast and like, what do you love talking about on the pod? Yeah, what are people expecting, tuning in? Yeah, yeah.
Danielle (57:15.79)
Yay, thank you. So I have a podcast, it's called the She Versus World Podcast, and it is a Millennial Gals Guide to Business and Life. You don't have to be a millennial to either be on it or listen to it. It's just kind of a nice frame of where we are as people. But Megan's going to be a guest next week from when we record this, so yay. But I like to make it a really fun mix of incredible women who are really changing the game.
Meghan Houle (57:35.118)
Yay! Yeah, yay!
Danielle (57:43.886)
of what business looks like about what just owning being a woman looks like. And then I like to balance that with having real world and actionable, tangible business conversations. So for example, later today, I'm recording an episode, I call it office hours, and I just take like three to five questions that have come up in my DMs, in conversations with clients, and I just answer them in a podcast episode. I'll do other longer format ones. So for example, I have another one coming out that's like creating membership models in your business and like how to do it and what to learn from it.
Meghan Houle (57:53.166)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (58:06.83)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (58:11.47)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle (58:12.942)
So it's a little bit fun, it's a little bit no-nonsense, it's a little spicy, it's like, you know, we all love that. So it's been a fun show, I really enjoyed it. It's honestly gotten my favorite medium of creating and waiting to meet people. And so thanks for letting me share about it.
Meghan Houle (58:19.63)
Yeah.
Meghan Houle (58:28.334)
No, 100%. I'm like, we can't not talk about the podcast. And I think that these podcasts, I don't feel like people just understand how generous if someone does have a podcast and does record solo episodes. And I love, and I need to start incorporating this too, taking questions that are coming up and saying, hey, guys, this is what the audience is sitting with right now. Let me answer these questions for you. And you can get takeaways and go implement and action them. And I know you're so generous too with
engaging with people online and on Instagram. And gosh, what an incredible business you have in the rise of entrepreneurship and people that need advice, like from all angles. So anyone that's struggling with team, legal processes, systems, outlining your hiring plan, and you wanna get to that next level. I mean, I hope that you go and find Danielle, listen to the podcast and then, yeah, maybe we'll see you in our Napa retreat, like who knows?
Who knows? So thank you. So, oh my God, thank you so much for being here Danielle. I have just loved getting to know you and just your energy, your spirit. So thank you so, so much. And I can't wait to come out and see you soon in real life and keep on crushing it. Yeah. Keep on crushing it. Yeah. You're the best.
Danielle (59:44.334)
Keep on crushing it. Thanks, Megan. You're the best.