Pivot With Purpose Season 5 Episode 17 Kaitlyn Norwood Full Transcript

Meghan Houle (00:02.577) Caitlin, welcome to the Pivot With Purpose podcast. Thank you so much for being here today, my friend. How are you? Kaitlynn (00:04.319) I like that. Kaitlynn (00:10.059) I'm doing amazing. Thank you so much for having me. I know it's so cliche, but I really am like so honored to be here and having a chat with you and your audience. Meghan Houle (00:17.811) No, I'm so honored. And I know you were so kind to have me on your incredible podcast confidence like a mother. And we definitely share in the same energy and also activities that we just love and hold near and dear. Right? I know come straight from the gym loves it. But no, your voice is so needed to my community where I just love all the messages. Kaitlynn (00:33.298) Yeah, coming from spin. Thank God. Kaitlynn (00:42.274) Thank you all. Meghan Houle (00:44.931) that you share as a woman in business, career woman, mother, like amazing wife, like you're just doing all the things. And I just love that you do it so authentically where it just looks like, all right, like, yeah, you can do it and do it messy, right? And just it's amazing. So I can't wait to dive in because I know you have some really juicy pivots and a lot of fun things to say around that. But as we get started, tell us what's up. Kaitlynn (00:53.23) Thank you. Kaitlynn (01:00.118) This is what we're doing, babe. Yeah. Kaitlynn (01:08.375) Yes. Meghan Houle (01:12.435) in your world today? Like what's really lighting you up? What are you up to as we're navigating kind of the first months of the year here? What is going on in Caitlin's world? Yes. Kaitlynn (01:16.823) Yeah. Kaitlynn (01:22.286) Okay, so a lot of cool things going on in my world, but I'm not like, oh, I have so many things going on. I feel like 2024 is my year of just like focusing and really being good at what I'm good at. And one of the things that I would, that I'm really excited about this year in particular is just being seen. I feel like I've worked so much like behind the scenes on my business and talking about my pivot, which I know that you and I are gonna get into in the weeds about, but. Meghan Houle (01:32.943) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (01:47.998) I feel like I've done so much work on myself within the last three years that now all of the seeds that I planted three to one year ago are starting to come into fruition. That feels really exciting for me. My whole goal, and I know this is a goal for you too, Megan, especially last year, was just getting on more stages, connecting with more people, chatting with more women, having authentic and genuine relationships with people, not in a way to just serve each other, but in a way to really just see other humans for humans. create friendships and new meaningful avenues in life. And those are the things that are lighting me up right now. Meghan Houle (02:23.271) Yeah. And you, you're just so amazing at doing that because I feel like sometimes when we have a lot going on or there's a time in your life that feels really heavy, it then becomes like super isolating, right? Where you're like, oh, well, I don't really have a lot of things to say or you really think you don't have much going on. So you're like, nobody cares. But I'm like, so many people care. And there's just so... Kaitlynn (02:33.851) Yeah. Yeah, totally. Kaitlynn (02:46.078) Yeah! Meghan Houle (02:49.027) There's such an incredible network of support. And I know we chatted about this when we were seeing each other a few weeks ago or last week on It Feels Already, like what is today. But you know, women, now I know, right? Women bringing women together and really expanding your network and building those stages if they don't exist and like creating a space in your zone of genius, which I know you're navigating so beautifully. So tell us early Caitlin highlights, getting into some of the pivots. Kaitlynn (02:56.423) right? Last month. It was just last week. Kaitlynn (03:18.27) Yeah. Okay. Meghan Houle (03:22.796) is what you were doing recently, what you started out to do before this big pivot we'll get into, or where did the career kickoff come in for you? Kaitlynn (03:30.99) Yeah, that's such a great question. Gosh. Okay, so I'll just like be this is where I am now. I'm in private practice. I'm a licensed therapist, and I'm also a life coach. And this is like my new pivot. This is where I am right now in my life as you stand in 2024. But no, did I ever think that I was going to be like working by myself for myself doing this by myself like no, nope, I never did. I'm always obsessed and I have been obsessed since I was like young with Meghan Houle (03:45.293) Yay! Kaitlynn (04:01.186) human behavior and like why people do the things that they do. That's why I went into study psychology. Interestingly enough though, I went into study fashion merchandising right after high school because I was like, oh, that's what I want to do. I just like want to be in fashion. I was going to be you and you were going to be me again. But I just like, I was like, this is kind of for me. It felt kind of cut through it. I was like, that's not me as a person, but like, what else am I good at? And so I took some time back and I went to a community college. I left Providence. I went to a community college just to kind of figure myself out. or I wasn't gonna be just be burning all this money. I decided that, okay, maybe I do wanna like take my interest for what other people are doing. Am I like, I called it at the time nosiness, which like, I guess I'm still nosy. I wanna know why people are doing the things that we're doing and why am I doing the things that I'm doing. And so I went to go study psychology and I fell in love. I fell in love with like abnormal psychology. I fell in love with like cognitions, human behavior and... Meghan Houle (04:46.404) Huh? Kaitlynn (04:57.57) did a bunch of things undergrad that took me to the path of working in a school for a really, really long time. And I think I kind of fell into it because I was like, this is a great path for moms. We get summers off, you're off when your kids are up, because I knew at some point I would want to have a family. And I loved working with younger kids and adolescents. And so I was a counselor in a school for many years. And I was like, I'm going to go to college. Meghan Houle (05:01.732) Mm. Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (05:21.554) I think it was during the pandemic, Megan, not I think, I for sure know. It was during the pandemic as like most pivots, I bet you came coming on this podcast to have a conversation with you was like the pandemic hit and then like everything kind of changed and shifted. And I hit my rock bottom, Megan, where I can recall exactly the moment where I was sitting on my couch, the exact like, Oh my gosh, like what is life about? What am I doing? I started to just feel like misalignment with what I was doing in the school department. Meghan Houle (05:34.327) Yeah. Meghan Houle (05:43.663) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (05:48.834) I started to feel like really deeply depressed. I just had a newborn baby, had a baby in February. And I was like, I need some help. I just knew that I needed something more. I knew I was meant for more. I didn't quite know at the time what that was. And I had been following some people on social media, like life coaches, and I was always interested in professional development, and I was just willing to learn what I was, didn't know. And so I hired my first life coach, and I remember getting on the console call with this woman. And she was telling me what the investment was and I like nearly fell on the floor. And I was like not ready to do that. But I was like, if I don't do this now, I was so nervous about like just staying where I was and being complacent and just kind of like going on the rhythm of life like a lot of people do because it feels so freaking risky and so freaking scary to even like explore thinking about like what is life and like what is life beyond me as a mom and Meghan Houle (06:36.823) Yeah. Kaitlynn (06:44.246) What is life beyond like me as a school counselor? Like, what is life? And so I explored that with her and like I went in for like a businessy kind of approach. Like how can I start a business from this? How can I like have a practice, have a therapy practice at the time, or how can I work with people outside of the school? And it just like morphed into like personal development like on steroids. And that was kind of my little dipping the toe in the water of like. evolving into the person that I am right now and thinking about just new possibilities. I bet you experienced this too. When you get on a call, especially if someone's looking to make a pivot in their career, or maybe they're not satisfied in their job anymore and they want to know how can they move up the ladder or whatever, and you're working with people in the corporate setting, so many people I bet you say also to you, like, well, what is it that you want to do? What are you passionate about? What... Meghan Houle (07:15.491) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (07:37.066) What gets you excited? What lights you up? And so many women, like all the women that I connect with that are willing to work with me, they don't know. Or there's just like this, gosh, like it's this vast like otherness. Like we don't even know like where to go, what to explore, what's even possible for us. And I like to think about that's not a problem. Like at first I was like, oh my gosh, like this woman doesn't know what she wants. If we had to get her figure out what she wants. And I'm like, it's just become this natural thing where... Meghan Houle (07:44.753) Mm-mm. Yeah. Meghan Houle (07:59.516) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (08:06.45) I feel like when a woman gets on a call or when a client gets on a call with a coach with one of us, it's like, okay, one, I've been here before, so I have this experience of helping her navigate this, but also she's asking for, like, what she's doing right now isn't working. What you're doing right now is no longer working. And maybe what worked for you six months a year ago, three years ago, isn't working now. And the fact that you recognize it's no longer working, I feel like that's growth. So being able to kind of... Meghan Houle (08:33.515) That's a big step. Yeah. Kaitlynn (08:35.11) Yeah, like being able to kind of reframe the, gosh, I don't know what I want to do, which sounds big and scary. It's not. The reframe that I always like educate my clients on is really, you're just thinking of it. You're reimagining new possibilities for yourself, which sounds so much more empowering and like determined and gritty and like more of a go-getter rather than being like, gosh, I just don't know. Meghan Houle (08:51.004) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (08:59.492) Yeah. Reimagining new possibilities for yourself. I love that. Yeah. Because everyone comes to me struggling with, I don't know, or on that flip side, they're like, I'm flexible. I'll kind of consider everything. And you're like, no, actually, though. So yeah. Yeah. Kaitlynn (09:05.826) Yeah. Kaitlynn (09:13.675) Yeah. Kaitlynn (09:19.054) yeah, that's tough too. When you're like, I'm just, that's also like, I'm so willing to, rather than being like, I'm so willing to try anything new, which I guess would be a better reframe, but when you're like, I'm so flexible, I'll do anything. Like you're gonna take anything and anything that comes away and it's gonna be so misaligned that in a year from now, two years from now, you're gonna be right back here. Like right back where you are right now, right? So we're just gonna. Meghan Houle (09:36.787) Right. Right back here. Yeah. Right back where you are right now. Yeah. What was that big, no, I mean, thank you for sharing all of that. And I feel like also too, the moment of this like, oh shit, like I'm not feeling great. There's, you know, there's a lot of things kind of spinning and spiraling out of control. And if there's a catalyst in that wherein your job, you know, is like truly affecting you. And that's what I always say to my... Kaitlynn (09:54.407) it's so clear. Meghan Houle (10:04.695) people that come to me, that is definitely a moment where you need to pay attention to that anxiety, like whatever's coming up. I mean, for you, like working so long in the schools, like what was coming up that you're just like, you know, it's just, it's heavy out there in general, but I'm sure you dealt with a lot of heavy things as like a counselor and like holding space. So was there something in there that was just like... Kaitlynn (10:26.087) Yeah. Meghan Houle (10:32.879) And I think a lot of that you're doing today as you're like counseling and they're, you know, kind of working with these women, but like with kids, what were you seeing? And then what was it, you know, at some point you're just like, this is like not for me anymore. So curious. Kaitlynn (10:36.503) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (10:44.998) Yeah. So honestly, my job as a school counselor, I worked in all ages, like from elementary to high school, and all of the presenting problems kind of ranged. However, the crux of it all, or like the underpin between what I saw at all levels at age ranges was trauma and just like wanting to be connected and be seen. But that really wasn't... Meghan Houle (10:51.551) Oh wow! Oh wow! Yeah. Meghan Houle (11:02.967) Bye. Meghan Houle (11:06.907) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (11:09.17) the head like yes was that heavy and a lot of times I go home like crying and still thinking about these kids like are they safe and okay or like sometimes I get call at like 7 p.m like okay let me have to call crisis on this on this child or this family or can you call these yeah and of course I would and I was taking work home with me here and there but the more like veteran I got in my career like the more boundaries I was able to set and of course if things were an emergency like I'm Meghan Houle (11:13.335) Hmm. Yeah. Kaitlynn (11:33.63) I'm a professional and I'm a person who is caring and I will do whatever I can for any of my students and I still would. So there was like, sometimes I was like, yeah, this is a boundary that I'm going to, I'm going to break, let this go and I'm gonna call crisis or I'm gonna fall off of this family or I'm gonna call these, whatever. It really wasn't that. It really wasn't that kind of pulled me away or kind of like let me settle into the notion that like, okay, maybe this isn't for me anymore. It was more so like the system. Meghan Houle (11:36.471) Yeah. Meghan Houle (11:49.18) Mm-hmm. Mm. Meghan Houle (11:58.913) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (12:02.578) as a whole and I noticed, so it was my dream. Five years ago, I was working at the high school in my town or the town I grew up in and it was like my dream job. It was like where I wanted to land after I got my master's degree. It was where I wanted to be. And I got laid off from my job and I worked in a public school system in an urban district and layoffs were very common at the end of the year and the budget cuts happened and I remember getting pulled from my job at the high school which I loved. Meghan Houle (12:02.809) Mmm. Meghan Houle (12:26.688) Mm. Yeah. Kaitlynn (12:31.818) at the time and I was laid off and I didn't get called back to work. Usually like a callback would come like in August and I knew I would, you know, nothing happened, you know, but this time I didn't get called back until November. So I had like this time where I was like, oh my goodness, like what am I going to do? And I experimented with, you know, fitness and I've always been into fitness. You and I have that in common. And when I got the callback I was like thrilled, but it was like, this is the only spot we have a job left for you. And it was at an elementary school. Meghan Houle (12:44.227) Mmm. Meghan Houle (12:48.835) Yeah. Meghan Houle (12:54.078) Yes. Kaitlynn (13:01.27) And I was devastated. I knew not one person that worked there, as you know, like having like a work wife or like work besties, like make your life like just, I don't know a single person at the school. And I didn't, and I went in and I loved the principal and not, I didn't love working with little kids, but I stayed there for five years. But every year I put in for a transfer to go back to the high school. Meghan Houle (13:07.23) Oh, it's so fun. Yes. Yeah. Kaitlynn (13:26.838) Like, please God, let there be an opening. Please God, let there be an opening. And finally there was, my mom had passed away in an opening at the high school open up. I was like, my mom created this for me. And I went and I was so happy. And I was so happy to be back. I love working with older kids. You can just talk with them and reason with them in a different way. And I was pumped to be there. And I started to notice, I was getting like pulled into things that like really weren't my vibe with like. Meghan Houle (13:39.074) Yeah. Meghan Houle (13:44.68) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (13:54.07) gossip and just kind of feeling negative at work, like driving to work and just being like, oh, I'm kind of dreading it. What's going to be thrown at me today? The systems and support weren't in place in order to support the heaviness of what we were dealing with. It wasn't the heaviness per se. It was really the system at play. And then all meanwhile, we're talking about improving reading scores and math scores. And these kids, there was just a shooting at his house last night. We're not even, we're not talking about reading scores. Meghan Houle (13:56.398) Mmm. Meghan Houle (14:01.283) Yeah. Meghan Houle (14:07.715) Yeah. Meghan Houle (14:21.311) Right. Yeah. Kaitlynn (14:23.35) But there was like so much push on that and having to do writing sample. I just remember like sitting in a staff meeting one time, like I was just like, this is so misaligned with who I am. Meghan Houle (14:30.815) It's a lot, right? Even from like when we have grown up, it's just, do you feel like it's just all about testing? And like some kids are not great at testing and there's like really beautiful intelligent souls. I hate taking tests, but like, you know, I don't know. It's a little broken. Yeah, it's a little broken. Kaitlynn (14:41.997) Yeah. Yeah, I'm not great at it either. I know, I agree. It's a little broken, it's a lot bit broken. I felt like during COVID, I was like, this is really gonna break down the educational system and it's gonna come back and like with the whole remote learning and it didn't. And in the pace, and I think some great things that come from COVID when it comes to education, the social stunting that happened. Meghan Houle (15:01.577) No. Meghan Houle (15:05.229) Yeah. Meghan Houle (15:11.019) Yeah, scary. Yeah. Kaitlynn (15:11.19) like the lagging of social skills that happened during that time, I think it really had a great impact on the students of that age group, like that adolescent, like not being able to socialize. And we saw that, but that wasn't totally it. It was just like, I, I'm a genuinely positive person. I have a positive outlook on life. I am happy to go home with my family. Like I just started to notice little things about myself that I was like, Ooh. Meghan Houle (15:19.897) Yeah. Meghan Houle (15:35.102) Mmm. Kaitlynn (15:35.742) I don't like that. And I kind of kind of like pull my bet myself back to myself. Like on vacations, I was like, wow, I'm like genuinely so happy right now. And these Sunday scaries aren't just like the normal Sunday scaries. Like this is like intensely like, like I can't even like feel. And I just remember in April, I was like, I had already started, you know, I started working with a coach myself and she was like, you have something here. You have an education. Like she, you have your master's degree. You have a ton of experience. Meghan Houle (15:45.266) Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. Kaitlynn (16:02.174) you could be working with you. We kind of played it out and I was like, wow, maybe I could. I never thought that was possible for me. And I never wanted to do outpatient therapy where I was charging insurance. I never wanted to do it that. And I just kind of, in my practice now, created exactly what I love to do in the way that I love to do it. And I love when I meet a new woman and they're like, gosh, I'm so stuck in my career, but I'm a teacher. I can't leave because we have retirement and we have... Meghan Houle (16:22.115) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (16:31.562) Healthcare and we have I care. I'm like, did you know that I was did you know as an educator too and people are like Oh my gosh, you were and then they like they like perk up a little bit. They're like, okay, like what are you doing? Meghan Houle (16:39.093) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Well, the credibility, they can relate with you, and you understand. You're kind of speaking a different language to them, like knowing what it's like to be in the shoes. Yeah. Kaitlynn (16:49.45) And Megan, we are taught and conditioned from a very early age and like undergraduate and undergrad, I would say that like teaching is it, especially in the mental health field, like you want to get into the schools because it's a rest mother schedule. It's a decent salary. You're going to increase every year and like, whatever, like there is nothing to brag about, right? These increases, but we're conditioned. You have such a great pension at the end. Meghan Houle (17:12.26) Right. Yeah. Kaitlynn (17:16.118) But you have to, no one's saying like you have to ride it out until like your 70. Like it's like it's years in times your age is when you get that 80%. Right. We're all looking for that golden nugget. Like 80% of your salary is like what you get to retire with. And I was like, I ain't making it. Like education is not what it was. Like we're not making it to 80%. Yeah. I ain't making it. And I ain't retiring in school. And so I just like had to start to think about different things or different ways in which like I was going to. Meghan Houle (17:35.039) I ain't making it. Oh my god. Yeah. Kaitlynn (17:45.546) pivot from that institution and create something that felt so beautiful and good for me. And it's taken, I mean, it's been like six months since I've left. And it's taken this long for me to actually be like, wow, this is actually working. Meghan Houle (17:52.812) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Meghan Houle (18:01.34) Yeah, yeah. Well, and then on that couch where you were sitting in like some heavy, deep things, like was that the point where you really started to put things in motion? So like step one was like you identified and sort of worked and hired a coach, which it's great like at levels, if you can invest. And you and I talk about this all the time, the coaching industry still is very not regulated. And like, I think you have to be really careful the credentials and like I'm accredited, like you're highly, highly educated. Like you have to do due diligence with a coach at many, in many ways, because you can work with somebody that could like truly mess you up too and make things even worse. But so was it like calling the coach and then what, what was the process of creation and building this? And then finally Kaitlynn (18:31.412) Absolutely. Meghan Houle (18:52.927) like resigning and then I'm sure as we've been talking about these like sunken costs, like certainty jobs, like people probably like you're crazy. But what was that process like for you in building and creating to like where you are now? Yeah. Kaitlynn (19:00.209) Really? Yeah. Kaitlynn (19:07.446) Yeah. So that was, it was a many year process. And from the point where I hired my coach, like, this wasn't ever the dream. Like, I guess maybe it was underneath the surface. It helped me like unearth it a little bit, but this was never it. Yes, it really is. Like this path was like not what I was like, I'm going to quit my job in five years from now. Like, never, like, never did I ever think I was leaving education. Never did I ever think that it would have my own practice. Right. So that Meghan Houle (19:10.377) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (19:17.315) Hmm. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Meghan Houle (19:27.703) Yeah. Kaitlynn (19:35.846) was more about my own personal development and kind of getting over. Um, I had a lot of like old beliefs about who I was, that I wasn't smart enough, that it wasn't good enough. Um, and how that played out into everything that I believed about myself. Right. And it, when you're not, when you don't know what you don't know, we always hear that and it's so true. Like I was like, I'm good. I'm really good. And yeah, like I'm fine. But if you're not working with somebody on like what's going on mentally or like, Meghan Houle (19:44.943) Got it. Yeah. Meghan Houle (19:49.079) Your life. Yeah. Meghan Houle (20:05.496) Yeah. Kaitlynn (20:06.226) where your beliefs about yourself came from, then you're just like going on the default. You are good. Like maybe you really are and like that's fine. But if you want something deeper and like you want something bigger and more purposeful and like your like soul is lit up every single morning that you wake up, like you got to do a little work to get here and a lot of healing, a lot of healing. And so like back then to like where I am now, I just love that. Meghan Houle (20:12.737) Right. Meghan Houle (20:24.723) Yeah. Kaitlynn (20:33.102) I love that Caitlin that took the huge risk and like talk to her husband in the garage. I remember him being like, it caused what? Like what? What? Like, and I'm like, I just know that I need to do this. And I have like tears in my eyes. I'm like, I just remember feeling how I felt. And like, I was like, just not this. Like, I don't want to feel this way anymore. I think it was something bigger and greater for me. So I think like, you know, it was like a six month period and like I got into other masterminds and I think that's where my growth really took off. It's like getting in with other women that were also. Meghan Houle (20:44.227) Oh, yeah. Meghan Houle (20:51.623) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (20:57.928) Awesome. Kaitlynn (21:00.586) kind of on this pivot or on the edge of their growth. And I feel like we're always on the edge of our growth because I think about it as like a coastline, right? You're always on the edge of the coastline, but the coastline is always slowly moving and the water is pushing pressure. And it's never gonna be just here. It's always going to be traveling along, evolving and growing. And that's who we are as humans. It's not like, okay, I hired the coach, I did the work, I got the job I want, and now I'm cured and solved forever. It's really not life. Meghan Houle (21:28.919) Mm-mm. Kaitlynn (21:30.118) It's always an evolution. It's like a new problem in a different package and a new way of a new solution that we're gonna have to like learn how to live with. But no, it was never the intention. It was never the goal to be here. And I think that's the coolest part is just that like, I've created this for myself. And like, like I said, like this, me being like, this is working and I'm really happy doing what I'm doing is very new. I'd say like September, October, November, I was like. Meghan Houle (21:31.797) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (21:41.9) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (21:54.351) Love you. Kaitlynn (21:59.29) what did I do? What did I actually do? I'm like, I gave up six figures, like a secure six figures benefits like this and that. And like, when you said people look at me like I was crazy, like did people look at me like I was crazy? Absolutely. But there was a lot of educators and I was, I did like a quiet goodbye. I didn't. Meghan Houle (22:10.032) Hmm. Meghan Houle (22:15.337) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (22:20.084) They're probably also jealous though. They're like, hey, teach us your ways. Yeah. Kaitlynn (22:24.066) No, and I like even like don't want to I hate to use the word jealousy. But I think that some people are now looking to me like teach me your ways kind of thing. Like how did you do it and which I'm happy to actually make biggest pleasure and joy is to like show other people as what's possible. And when anybody says to me like, you were inspired me to like, take the summers off because like in education, like, yeah, we make okay money. But like sometimes people are like working summer to like, make up to pay for summer camps for their kids. Like, there's a ton of Meghan Houle (22:28.63) Yeah. Meghan Houle (22:32.107) Yeah. Meghan Houle (22:39.948) Mm. Meghan Houle (22:49.729) Right. Yeah. Kaitlynn (22:53.426) opportunities to make extra money and the field of education and a lot of people do it and I'm like, nope, not worth it, but whatever. If I can inspire anybody, any woman, any person listening to this that is in education or that is in a field where they have a ton of sunken costs, like again, that sunken cost fallacy is that you have to stay where you are because you've wasted or you've spent a lot of money on your degree or you're a lot of time and training in your career or a lot of energy doing what you're doing, you don't have to stay. There are other ways to use your skills, your education, your training, your certifications, your accreditations in a different way that you get to reimagine for yourself. Meghan Houle (23:33.807) Right. Yeah. Because you're now training and educating but on other sides, right? So you are using all those transferable skills. I mean, I forget her name, but I know there's like a high-powered lawyer that wound up leaving a big, big juicy job, a sunken cost job, as you would say, that now is doing like coaching, but coaching for like high-performing lawyers to get out of burnout and overwhelm and all of that. And it's like … Kaitlynn (23:38.388) 100%. Kaitlynn (23:51.735) Yeah. Kaitlynn (24:00.406) Yeah. Meghan Houle (24:01.791) you walk in the shoes with somebody that needs that guidance and that path that you've been on because you've done it, right? And that credibility is there. So I think if you can hone and harness in that zone of genius and then use all that beautiful knowledge in service of others to show others what is possible or maybe help them just bring out the best of themselves, find their blind spots, live. Kaitlynn (24:17.25) Yeah. Meghan Houle (24:28.607) with more freedom, joy, you know, whatever someone's goal is. It is pretty magical and I resonate with like exactly where you are, cause that was kind of my journey before I threw myself into coaching programs and all the things myself of like having to work with a coach and getting through some limiting beliefs. mindset things of significance and no one's listening to me or no one sees me or whatever. It's like, girl, see yourself. You're valued. You're seen. It's not about everyone else's opinion. You have to go out there and share your voice and know that it holds so much power. You can do anything, truly, but I know there's so much fear in that. What has it been like for you building this new… Kaitlynn (24:50.006) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (24:55.84) Yeah! Kaitlynn (25:07.744) Yeah. Meghan Houle (25:13.487) practice, like how are you helping and supporting all the women that are coming into you? Like who is your ideal client? Like talk to us a little bit about now. Yeah, like specifically. Kaitlynn (25:18.805) Yeah. Kaitlynn (25:23.038) Yeah. So I've never felt more like happy, joyful, fulfilled in my entire life. So that feels, yeah, it does. It feels really good. And at the same time, and, and like lonely. Yeah. Like, I know, I know. And like, it's been, we've been like, lovely connecting. I feel like I've also never networked as hard as I've networked in the past, like. Meghan Houle (25:39.745) And, but, yes, I'm here for you. Yeah. Kaitlynn (25:51.562) month or two, I'd say, because like, for the first, I'd say, four months of me leaving, so like that September, like the school went back and I was like, Oh, shit, I'm not going back, which felt awesome. But then it was like, but now, yeah, like, oh, wait, now I have to make my own money. And like, this is really all on me. And so that was a scary feeling at first. And all of the people like in my life that were like, Meghan Houle (26:02.947) Crazy, but also crazy, right? Yeah. Kaitlynn (26:18.194) Okay, so what's your plan? And I'm like, my plan is my plan. Like that's gonna go and do this. And I think like one of the biggest when I say like lonely is like, I for the first like I'd say, chapter of my professional career, air quotes. I worked with like I had a partner, I had a colleague, I had a direct supervisor, I had Meghan Houle (26:23.458) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (26:40.107) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kaitlynn (26:43.33) somebody that I could go, a principal, somebody that I could go to bounce ideas off of, to talk about a challenging case, to just like have inside jokes with, like I had all of that. And I think I wasn't expecting or anticipating like, kind of like the sadness that I felt not having that, especially and still doing similar kind of like space holding for other people and in like a similar facet. Meghan Houle (26:54.418) Right. Meghan Houle (27:05.892) Mmm. Meghan Houle (27:09.459) It's a shift for sure. I mean, I just said, I remember stepping out of like my store, my roles, and like being on the agency side now, we're all remote. We stay connected, but not in person, which is why like the fitness thing for me was so important because that was like the sense of community. Then you kind of find your community or other people and then work that becomes like a different flip. But it definitely can feel isolating. And then you're also home holding Kaitlynn (27:22.402) Yeah. Kaitlynn (27:36.096) Yeah. Meghan Houle (27:38.527) So it's just like that can get heavy and then you're also isolating. So I'm sure you have to find like balance and routine, which I know you're so good at, but yeah, like how do you, how have you cut through that? How do you feel like you found your stride of like a routine? Yes. Yeah. Kaitlynn (27:41.928) Yeah. Kaitlynn (27:47.167) Yeah. Kaitlynn (27:55.555) So yeah, now I feel like I've got this on lock. I've got this so good. I have a great schedule going. But it came to the point where I was like, okay, I have to like, life is really all about going and creating it for yourself. And I think I never had to do that before. And if you're working for somebody else, or if you're working in a large system, it's kind of beautiful in a way, it's thoughtless. You go to work, you show up, there's a start time, and there's people, you have to check in, you have projects, you have the deadlines. Meghan Houle (28:05.75) Yes. Kaitlynn (28:21.962) You have all of that kind of like in a little cute little package. And I know it's unique and different for everybody. I'm not trying to simplify it, but, um, I wasn't. The freedom and the openness that came with this, which is a gift and occurs. Right. So recently, like January, literally last month, um, being like, I got to go and create it for myself, which feels so empowering and so. Meghan Houle (28:40.214) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (28:47.538) liberating at the same time. So where I found community is I love working out as well. I love my body. I love a good sweat. I love people that also love to do that. So I entered into a training program. I'm training to be an indoor cycling instructor. So that's been huge in my development as well, because I like to be good at things. And I like to be great. And my when I first audition, they were like, yeah, the no for us, man. And I'm like, what I've never not Meghan Houle (29:07.653) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (29:17.034) been excellent. And so I was like, no, I really want this really bad. And so it's kind of become a secondary part of my growth. And so I've been working for six months and it's been amazing and hard and transformative. But I think that has tied me into a community of people that also align with who I am as a person, my values, and that's been amazing. But also making intentional effort. Another thing that I've done is making intentional effort to connect with women, people. Meghan Houle (29:22.967) Mmm, cool. Kaitlynn (29:45.706) but mostly women that are doing things that I love and doing things that I wanna do or maybe a step ahead of me or maybe they're a step behind me and I'm here to mentor and inspire. That's really been what's lit me up because I started this whole interview office. I love connecting with people. All we want is connection with other people as it's a human, we want validation, we want to be seen, right? And for so long, I was thinking I was being seen and I wasn't. I just thought. Meghan Houle (29:57.212) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (30:05.435) And yeah. Yeah. Meghan Houle (30:14.698) Mmm, same, yeah. Kaitlynn (30:15.666) I was like, like just thought that I was and I was like, yeah, I want to be seen. I'm being seen. I'm putting myself, I go on social media. Like I do reels. I do. And it's not that it's really like one, like you said, like girl, are you seeing yourself? But like telling yourself and really healing into like that you're worthy of being seen. And if that is by one person on social media, like that's it. It's all about like your intention and your feeling about yourself being seen. Not like the. Meghan Houle (30:25.684) Yeah. Meghan Houle (30:29.669) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (30:37.833) Yeah. Kaitlynn (30:45.954) what's the word I'm looking for? I'm losing my words. But logically, I was like, I know I want to be seen, but I really wasn't. And that's this whole year is like, get out and be seen. Go put your ass up there and be seen. Meghan Houle (30:51.81) Yeah. Uh, hell yes. Oh, you know, I mean, I was preaching that as we were like barely coming out of the pandemic. I'm like, get out of your house. But you know, there's so much value. But I think that that, and I don't know if this is a common theme that you get with women coming and working with you lately. Would love to hear any, any of that, you know, what's our, what's our common theme we're all struggling with. But I, I do feel like it's like the networking, um, getting out in person again. Kaitlynn (31:04.11) I'm sorry. Kaitlynn (31:14.081) Yeah. Meghan Houle (31:21.383) showing up feeling like, oh, I have nothing to say or I haven't done anything. And I feel like that, you know, so there's an unworthiness that we're already attaching to ourselves of like, oh, well, so-and-so is like doing this and all these three things. Like, okay, so are you. And it also doesn't have to just be about jobs, right? Like, I love creating networking where it's like, what are you guys loving these days? Like coming to, and I know you and I talked about this and maybe we'll tease and like drop it a little bit. But like, Kaitlynn (31:27.057) Uh-huh. Meghan Houle (31:50.275) bring women together and being okay asking for an ask. I think a lot of people have these really amazing businesses or offerings, but they feel like a little ick about selling themselves or what they do or they don't wanna come off salesy because of course we know and we've seen, I'm sure lots of people in businesses, it's just such a force and a push and you're like, okay, whoa, slow down a little bit. Kaitlynn (31:56.299) Yeah. Kaitlynn (32:05.097) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (32:16.487) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (32:17.079) people we know where to find you and it's like almost too much. And then in the opposite, there's then other people that are like, I hate talking about myself and what I do. And I'm just like, okay, but no one's going to know or be able to help you unless you like tell us like how can we help you? And I think like that is maybe a conversation to keep continuing on in this year of like, not just like, what are you doing? Like what do you do for work? But right. What is lighting you up? And like, how can I help? Kaitlynn (32:20.684) Yeah. Kaitlynn (32:29.728) Yes. Meghan Houle (32:43.435) Like, how can I help you? Because I just don't feel like there's a common denominator there where some women truly feel like other women like wanna clap for them. Kaitlynn (32:43.916) Yeah. Kaitlynn (32:52.762) Yeah, oh my God, I love that you said that. And like, I was that person that was like, yeah, like I'm like, I, boop, boop. I was totally that person. And like, I guess I'm still developing this, like healing is part of me that I'm like, oh, people already know what I do. So I don't need to keep saying it. And like, that's not true. And I had this like unique experience in Boston Common. It was like an afternoon, I had gotten my hair done and I was like, I'm grabbing something to eat. It was a beautiful day. Meghan Houle (32:58.231) Just saying. Yeah, just saying. Meghan Houle (33:12.451) Totally not true. Yeah, yeah. Kaitlynn (33:22.474) Let me just go sit out in the green and just like be there. Right. And so there was a guy, he had a backpack on and he was selling cupcakes. He had like a high end cupcakes that he was selling and he. I'm here for, I love a tree girl. I love it's tree. But I was watching him, but I was also like recording a real like on my phone, whatever, and I was watching him and he went to every single person around me. Meghan Houle (33:27.727) Mmm. Meghan Houle (33:31.147) Oh, okay. Out of a backpack, you're like, can we get some like health food? You're like, I'll take your cupcake. I love you. Yeah. Meghan Houle (33:51.543) Okay. Yeah, he probably made bank. Yeah. Kaitlynn (33:51.746) to offer them a cupcake, to sell his cupcakes. And he skipped, he skipped by me. And, but like, listen, I think that he was trying to be, you're like, respectful. I was like there in my film, like I don't think he was trying to bother, right? He didn't want to bother me. So I actually stopped him because I was like, I love a treat, I love a cupcake, but I know my girls are gonna love cupcakes. Like I think of my girls all the time. And I was like, oh, excuse me. As he's walking by, he was not gonna ask me. And I was like, oh, are you selling cupcakes? And he said, oh yeah. Meghan Houle (33:59.288) Yeah. Meghan Houle (34:04.304) Mmm, oh, got it. Yes. Kaitlynn (34:21.11) I didn't want to bother you. It's exactly what he said. And I said, Oh, what do you have left? And he had the chocolate, just what I needed, like chocolate, peanut butter. My girl loved that. And I was like, Oh, I'll take two. And I thought about him on the ride home. As I got back in my car, it was like, he would have like lost out on a sale because he didn't want to bother somebody. And this is, I related to like women and me even about being seen, like how much we don't want to bother somebody else with like how we can help them or like. I was delighted to buy something from him. I wanted to throw my money at him and spend my money on what he was offering me because it was like something that I wanted. And he was ready to like just be like, Oh, I don't want to bother her. And I think about that and like the way that we show up, right. And whether it's in sales or like what we offer or a good that we have or a product that we love that maybe you want to just like tell other people about has nothing to do with us making money or making a sale at all. But we're just like, Oh, I don't want to bother them. Meghan Houle (35:00.025) Yeah. Yes. Meghan Houle (35:12.579) Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. Kaitlynn (35:14.762) But when people are really here for it and you're in circles of women that are, like we're trying to create, it's like, no, everybody's there. What you got? What you got over there? I want to help. I want some of that. Meghan Houle (35:24.843) Right? Yeah. Well, and just like you were saying, you could be exactly what someone needs at the moment. Yeah. Kaitlynn (35:33.854) If you were in your head about bothering air quotes, bothering somebody or being an inconvenience because that's your shit, that's your own shit that you got going on. And if you're not healing that or working through that or like someone else is bringing your attention, like holding a mirror for you to bring that to your attention, like, Hey, you just like skip that girl. Like she wants exactly what you have. And if you don't go over there and share what you're doing or what you have or what you're selling, that's like a missed opportunity. So Meghan Houle (35:35.499) Yeah. Right. Yeah. Meghan Houle (36:01.939) No, such good nuggets in there. Do you feel like that's a common theme that a lot of women come to you? What else is sitting heavy with people? Give us a little counseling right now. Therapize me. Kaitlynn (36:11.41) Oh, yeah. Okay, so this another. Yes. Other things that are coming up are like, I we've talked about this is like women. Okay. I'm like, Okay, let me get on the soapbox. I feel like, especially with like, you like we want to think that it's worse than it is like when people come to sit down with me as a therapist, like that's my background. And like, although I don't like practice as a therapist, I like combined my coaching with therapy and like my education, but Meghan Houle (36:17.496) Yeah. Meghan Houle (36:22.571) You're like, hold on. I got you. Meghan Houle (36:39.632) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (36:40.754) I use CBT a lot, like cognitive behavior therapy is like my go-to. It's a lot of like mindset work. It's kind of like reframing how the language about a situation, event, or circumstance and having it be you creating a more supportive perspective about it, right? It's a lot of what coaching is, but that's CBT, like that's therapy. And so what I get a lot on calls or women that want to work with me is like, Meghan Houle (36:54.699) Okay. Yeah. Kaitlynn (37:06.226) I think that things are a problem and that they're worse, whether they're worse off than they are and they're like they need I'm doing it They need therapy or they need me as a therapist as someone who's like a licensed mental health professional to tell them that like, okay It's this is what it is Everybody and I saw that so much with Also my students like miss. I just want to know that I have this diagnosis I just I am looking for an answer right? We're all looking for some type of answer Meghan Houle (37:21.325) Mm, okay, yeah. Meghan Houle (37:27.513) Yeah. Meghan Houle (37:31.889) Oh, okay. Yeah. Kaitlynn (37:34.666) And we think that answer is going to fix that piece of us that is lagging. I don't want to use the word broken, but like that piece of us that might be missing or that piece that's going to like help fix us and curious. And that's not it. Like, yes, of course, like maybe in fifth grade, if to learn that you're a girl with like ADHD, maybe that's going to help you like figure out how to organize your things better and may might get you more support in school and an IEP to help with your executive functioning. Yes. I'm here for that. But like Meghan Houle (37:43.928) Hmm. Meghan Houle (37:47.281) No. Meghan Houle (37:52.818) Right. Kaitlynn (38:03.546) I am so not here for and like a lot of what I'm seeing right now is like, tell me what's wrong with me so I can understand what's wrong with me. And then like, I just want you to like fix it. And I don't, I don't have a wand. Although I wish I had a wand, I'd be just ridiculously amazing if I had a wand. But it's really, things aren't as bad as you think they are. And everything has a solution. Like I like to think of like any problem has. Meghan Houle (38:12.065) Right? Meghan Houle (38:15.811) Yeah. Now. Meghan Houle (38:24.931) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (38:31.854) perhaps multiple solutions and part of my best work is helping you, my client or anybody that I'm talking with a friend, come up with a solution that feels really good for you. And that's kind of it. Meghan Houle (38:42.139) Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. Well, and I feel like, yeah, in a diagnosis too, there's maybe like comfort and being like, oh, it's this. So like then other people in your life can say, oh, okay, you're acting this way because you have this. And like sometimes it's not black and white or so tangible. And like we can't just slap labels on everything because like it just doesn't exist. But that's like the clinical like, you know, internal medicine where, you know, we want all these answers. But like think about how you could show up and go to a doctor, love doctors. but also sometimes they can't heal certain parts of you. Think about all the gut healing and all the things that are going on that can be done in so many different ways, working with others that are professionals in that gut space that have cured people, not just by going through traditional medicine and traditional diagnosis. There's just so much more now and so grateful for people like you that are really, again, using their beautiful talents in the world to show others that... Kaitlynn (39:28.215) Yes. Meghan Houle (39:38.655) It's not always black and white with these things. And, but I feel like people always want to make things like make sense. And then they're able to communicate like with their family, like, oh, well, this is what's wrong with me. But you're like, no, I mean, there's a lot of stuff that we got to work through. And sometimes there's not a name behind it. It's just like work through your shit. Like work through your shit. Yeah. Kaitlynn (39:40.927) now. Kaitlynn (39:56.558) Yeah, I also I can also like relate and understand like, like I was just talking about like the fifth grade girl that like needs help in with our organization, but like, there is some benefit of like having a label or an identity for like a certain subset of symptoms, right? So I get that there's the whole DSM, like we have the DSM for a reason. However, I don't find it to be helpful for you to hang your hat on that diagnosis that like, okay, I have anxiety disorder. Meghan Houle (40:02.785) Yeah. Meghan Houle (40:09.563) Yes, yes, yes. Yep. Meghan Houle (40:18.965) Right. Kaitlynn (40:23.138) like now I'll get on medicine or I'm not against medicine at all. But now like, okay, that's it. Like that's why I'm the way that I am. It's almost like stenting growth. I feel like if we're here to like pathologize everything, I'm not here for it. I just don't feel like that's the way to go. Just me personally, that's my own opinion. And like, also as a therapist that partners with insurance companies, which I'm not, I do not partner with insurance companies to get reimbursed through insurance. The only way you'll get paid as a therapist Meghan Houle (40:24.959) Right, right. Meghan Houle (40:31.982) Mmm. Meghan Houle (40:35.1) Right. Yeah. No. Kaitlynn (40:52.074) in the state of Massachusetts and probably every state in the country is if you're labeling somebody with a mental health disorder through the DSM. Yes. That'd be a whole separate conversation, but everything has to be a problem or a pathology in order for you to get reimbursed through your health insurance provider to see a therapist, to see a coach, to see anybody. Coaches don't get reimbursed for insurance, but yeah. You have to have a problem before. Meghan Houle (40:58.103) Like a diagnosis, wow, yeah. Interesting, yeah. Meghan Houle (41:15.309) Yeah. Meghan Houle (41:19.21) Mmm. Kaitlynn (41:19.774) you can even like go get any help. I'm just, I feel like the whole system, right? Back to the system. It doesn't, I'm so annoyed by that whole process that like I won't even, I won't even. Yeah. Meghan Houle (41:22.703) She is. Yeah. Meghan Houle (41:32.355) No. Well, you're so unique now in terms of what you offer and like truly how you can work with somebody in a very non-traditional but effective way. So that's amazing. Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (41:41.79) Yeah. Another thing that you were like, so you were talking about like a lot of what you see with like careers and pivots and the people that you're the folks that you're meeting with is like, they're talking like specifically they're solely focused on like, okay, Megan career pets, like she's focused on this. We're like, you're so dynamic. You're like so multifaceted that like, that's not all to do, right? And so like, when we're talking about bringing women together and Meghan Houle (41:51.64) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (42:06.616) Right. Kaitlynn (42:10.71) Like this is also a pivot that in me, I'm a mom and like I work predominantly with women who have children and I am way more than just a mom, right? So like my whole identity is not wrapped up into I'm the mom to these two girls who like are amazing and great and I love being a mom. That's nothing about that, but like I'm still me as a person, as an individual and my identity is, it spans far beyond the role, the role, cause it's not an identity, the role of just a mother, mother and so many, another. Meghan Houle (42:10.86) Yeah. Meghan Houle (42:20.993) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (42:36.366) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (42:40.606) one of the biggest presenting problems of women coming to work with me is that they are still wrapped up in their identity of being a mom, that they've forgotten who they are truly, like what their true identities are. And I just like to open people's eyes or like take their vision if they have blinders on and just kind of expand it a little bit because we're so much more than what we do for work. We're so much more than like what our careers or our titles or the, you know, couple letters that are after our names. We're so much more than that. Meghan Houle (42:50.284) Yeah. Meghan Houle (43:03.139) Yep. Meghan Houle (43:08.302) Yep. Kaitlynn (43:10.698) I just feel like when you have this bigness to you, or when you're reaching for this bigness, and the people around you also have this bigness with them as well, there's so much more levels that we can connect on rather than, again, just being a mom, or just what our careers are, or just what we do to fill our day. And that's what I love to bring out in conversations. That's what I love to connect with women about, not just this one singular, narrow focus. You know what I mean? Meghan Houle (43:11.029) Yeah. Meghan Houle (43:24.557) Yeah. Meghan Houle (43:27.919) Great. Aw. Meghan Houle (43:33.275) Yeah. It's so important and such a big conversation as you and I spoke about it too, for all the moms that I know too, a lot are like, well, I'm going to wait till this then to do this or enjoy my life or to travel and whatnot. And then you ask people, you know, like, yeah, what do you love to do? What do you love to do? And it's just like, it is kids, which is great. But like, again, you Kaitlynn (43:58.519) I'm like... Meghan Houle (43:59.347) You are also human and you had lives before kids and the kids are your life now too. But I just feel like it's such a good call up because I feel like people wait, or also with careers, like when I get this or when this happens, I'm going to do this. And it's like, man, life is so short. We all are just such beautiful souls here. And sure, pour in 100% of Kaitlynn (44:17.73) Hmm. Meghan Houle (44:24.375) whatever you feel like is serving you, but maybe what are you missing out on by not allowing yourself to expand or like find your voice and like stand in a new confidence, which I know, Vivien, into your podcast, Confident Like a Mother. What was that inspiration behind like bringing this podcast to life and all of the incredible wisdom that you drop on that podcast? And then I know most recently too, you were talking about not wasting your time. You're not wasting your time. So like, Kaitlynn (44:35.009) Yeah. Meghan Houle (44:52.959) you're confident like a mother, what does that mean? And like, dig into like the time wasting because I just like love to hear more about your thoughts. Yeah. Kaitlynn (44:58.158) Yeah, yeah, that was a really good episode. So confident like a mother was really obviously the play on words. I love to swear and like, come at it like a motherfucker, like whatever so it's a plan where it's um, I really my first episode, I was like, I want to be very clear that this is not an episode or this is not a podcast about motherhood. That's not what it is. Like, I'm just not here for like the soul. Society's definition of quote unquote, like motherhood and like, Meghan Houle (45:18.261) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (45:27.254) doing all of the work and raising the kids and it's always a struggle, right? I don't buy into that narrative. And I, like I was just saying, like I'm a person before, I was a mom, like I'm me first. And that's kind of the gist of being competent like a mother. I feel like competence is a skill that everybody can learn, that everybody can develop, hone in, harness, grow. And so each episode I get on there and I get on my little microphone and it really started from like. Meghan Houle (45:33.15) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (45:54.934) going on Instagram and sharing what I love to share or like motivational things or things that are like might be hard to hear on Instagram. And I was like, let me just do this long format and I'll just start my own podcast. And that's kind of what I did. And it's been almost two years. Well, yeah. And I love it. It's like also a really creative outlet. I'm a creative person. It's just kind of like a thing that I love to do. And I forget what I was going. Oh, there's something. I mean, yes. Meghan Houle (46:08.003) That's awesome. Yeah. Meghan Houle (46:20.111) Oh yeah, you're not wasting your time. So your latest episode, I know we dug into this, is like, what's the message behind that you're sharing? Yeah. Kaitlynn (46:29.35) Yeah. So it really was kind of inspired by somebody that I work with. And just to keep everybody like anonymous, but this person had a career and decided that was no longer going to be their career anymore. And they wanted to go back and study something else. And what they wanted to study was going to be super significant. Like going to school for seven years and this person is mid fifties. Meghan Houle (46:34.635) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (46:38.606) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (46:59.046) So there was a lot of stories about like, I'm too old for this. This is going to be, what if this is a waste of time? Like, what if I hate all the anatomy classes? But I'm really passionate about this specific field of medicine, right? And so what if, like, what if you did go to school for six years and you found out that it wasn't for you, like you were committed to it for six years? Like, what if it wasn't for you? And she was like, I would have all these great connections with professors and I would like learn all this information and I would. Like she had so much positive things to say about like, of course, it wouldn't be a waste of time. Like I would never look at it as a waste of time. But before we go and do anything, we tell ourselves not to do it because we're scared. We fear that it is going to be a waste of time. So then we don't, we sit on an idea, we sit on a concept, we sit on reaching out, we sit on all of these things because we're like, well, it might be a waste of time. And then we also have this like... I love that they like, what are we gonna be doing with our time? And so from now, for now until like the next year, like what's the amazing things that you're gonna be doing with all that time you're gonna be saving rather than taking those pre-med classes? Like, what are you gonna be doing? And like, there's nothing, we're not doing anything, but we just think that we're gonna be filling our time with like magical, amazing growth filling opportunities. And we're not, we're probably gonna be on our phone. We're gonna be watching a new series on Netflix. Like. Meghan Houle (47:57.368) Yeah. Meghan Houle (48:16.569) now. Kaitlynn (48:19.562) Maybe we'll go to a workout class. Like we're going to be doing all the same things that we've been doing because that's what we've been doing. But like just what if you decided that you were going to commit to something, whether it was what you turned out to do or not. Right. So like I went to grad school, I got my master's in social work. Was that a waste of my time? Absolutely not. Because I'm still in contact with friends from my master's degree that were like my work wives for three whole years. And there are some meaningful relationships there, but I got so much value and like learning and Meghan Houle (48:24.355) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (48:36.963) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (48:48.258) getting a B on a paper because I thought like I had no worth if I didn't get A's. Like even that alone when I got my first B, I was like, oh my God, like I'm never getting a job. And I'm like, no one's going to ask for my grades when I'm applying for jobs. Like that was an opportunity. That was a learning lesson though. I needed to get a B. I graduated undergrad with a 4.0 and I was like, this is my sick. But like I thought that was my identity. I was like, I have to be perfect. Meghan Houle (49:00.68) Right? Yeah. Meghan Houle (49:07.971) Sick. Dang girl. Yeah. Kaitlynn (49:14.226) I have to do this perfectly. And then I got to grad school and everybody else was raising their hands and contributing and smart and like have way more experience than I had because I went from straight to undergrad to grad. I was like, wait a minute, like everybody else here is smart too. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I needed to, yeah, I needed to have those experiences because they add to who I am as a person in life. So nothing is a waste of time. Am I using my masters? I mean, I guess. Meghan Houle (49:14.909) Mmm. Meghan Houle (49:24.195) Yeah. Meghan Houle (49:28.995) We can all get smarty pants. I love you. Yeah. Meghan Houle (49:41.863) Yeah, you are. Yes. Yeah. Kaitlynn (49:41.958) I guess they're using that experience, right? So when it comes to like going back to med school at 55 or when it comes to getting a degree, like none of that is a waste of time. Trying a new work out class, going and going solo vacationing or even just like going and trying like a brand new hobby, like knitting or something. And you're like, oh, that's a waste of time. Like, what if I don't like it? Buying a new book, like something as simple as that. Like, oh, what if I don't like it? Okay. What if you do though? Meghan Houle (50:08.267) Right. Ooh. Yes. Kaitlynn (50:10.742) What if you do like it? We just think that like. Kaitlynn (50:18.398) I just think that there's so much out there that we don't know about and we're never gonna go experience it if we don't go experience it. And I kind of ended it with like, if you knew that it was gonna be the best decision, if you committed to making, let's just use the med school example, if you were gonna be the top performing surgeon when you were getting out of grad school and you knew that you were gonna be changing lives and saving lives and you were committed, you knew you were gonna be so good at it. Meghan Houle (50:26.484) Amen. Yeah. Kaitlynn (50:48.534) What would you do different now? Like you'd go apply, you'd go get in, you'd go do it. If you knew it was all gonna work out, you would 100% would do it. And that's kind of like, that applies to everything in life. If you knew that it was all gonna work out and you were committed to making it work out, would you ask for help? Would you try harder? Would you apply to the schools? Like would you apply to the jobs? Would you reach out to Megan for support and like how to do your residency? Meghan Houle (50:49.055) Right, I feel like a no-brainer. Yeah, yeah. Right. Meghan Houle (50:58.497) Yeah. Kaitlynn (51:18.078) you would ask for help. Of course you would. And like, I think that's really the biggest difference between people that go after the shit, like the people that go do it, and the people that don't, is that they believe that they could do it. Meghan Houle (51:18.928) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Meghan Houle (51:31.499) Yeah. Oh, wow. And what a great exercise. For anyone listening in before we let Caitlin go, I want someone and we need to like tag people when this comes out, but like pick something. Try a new workout class, read a book, take Caitlin's advice, listen to her podcast. I mean for free 99. Yay. Our favorite price. Kaitlynn (51:37.166) I'm going to go ahead and close the video. Kaitlynn (51:46.889) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (51:51.914) free. Yes. Meghan Houle (51:53.775) free 929. You can get so much wisdom. And I just feel like there's so much resources. And then to take that next level, I just feel like investing in ourselves and personal development is such a hard sell. But I'm telling you, there are instances and moments where if something's not working and you're just doing the same things over and over and over, well, that's the definition of insanity. But also like you're not going to get there. I mean, sometimes we do need a little extra support. and we need to see that we are worthy to say, like you did, like I did in the pandemic when I was making zero 99, that I'm like, I'm investing in this coaching program. Like it's gonna cost this, whatever, we're gonna be fine, but I don't think I would be here today if I hadn't taken those steps to like really hone in, invest in myself. And I know not at all levels, you know, individuals can do that, but the people that do and the people that work with me at various levels, do they find a way? Kaitlynn (52:30.325) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (52:44.884) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (52:50.695) And I will tell you, you can 10x your life by that small investment for someone who's putting money into like investing in you to kind of block through limiting beliefs and maybe help establish businesses or better routines or all the things that you work through with these women, better networking, better presence or like working with any type of coaches that can get you that career or help you land a new job or help you just on this path that yeah, if the end game is like something really amazing and incredible like. Kaitlynn (52:51.019) I, yeah. Meghan Houle (53:19.607) Why wouldn't you kind of take that first step? And I know there's so much fear in that, but small baby steps, so small, actionable alignment. So everybody pick something that they're gonna try new and tell Caitlin and I about it. What are you doing? We wanna hear from you. Hit up Caitlin's podcast, Confident Like a Mother. And before I let you go, what have you learned most about yourself in this whole process of pivoting? Like, what have you learned or what are you like most proud of? Yeah. Kaitlynn (53:21.48) I know. Kaitlynn (53:24.962) Yeah. Kaitlynn (53:31.879) Tell us, yeah. Kaitlynn (53:37.282) Hmm. Kaitlynn (53:46.523) Mmm, such a good question. So proud of or learned? Okay. Meghan Houle (53:50.563) Both are in the same or one over the other, yeah. Kaitlynn (53:55.41) I'm proud of is obviously myself and my ability to like overcome and recreate, reimagine what is possible for me. And I'd say the biggest like, the biggest lesson I learned is definitely, we all know we all have this deeper knowing of what is right for us because we feel it. And sometimes we don't listen to that feeling that ick that we get or like that like, huh. Meghan Houle (54:02.364) Mm-hmm. Kaitlynn (54:20.362) I've never done that before at your job. I'm like, oh, I'm feeling exhausted. Like there is our body is telling us all the time. And when you can clue in and listen in and feel in, and you're starting to pay attention to truly what feels good for you and your body, the answers are already there. And I was just coming to a realization of like, you already have the answers. You already know that you wanna leave your job. You already know that you wanna ask for that promotion. You already know what you need in order to do that. And sometimes like you were just saying, it takes a little bit of like pushing or like reframing from somebody that's like outside of yourself to help pull you towards what really feels good for you or to like push you away from things that aren't serving you anymore. And sometimes it's a person, sometimes it's a friend, sometimes it's a coach, sometimes it's just what your body's already telling you and you actually like tune in and listen. And I feel like learning how to listen to that little piece of you is a gift and we all have it and it's free 99. Meghan Houle (54:59.299) Yeah. Meghan Houle (55:14.839) Listen, yeah, yeah. It's free 99, our favorite. Oh my God, I love you so much. How can people work with you today? Like, what do you have going on? Like, what's your favorite platform to engage on? How can we find you? Like, talk to us a little bit about the ways that we can find and work with you. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. Kaitlynn (55:18.974) It's $3.99. It is. I love you. Kaitlynn (55:32.906) Yeah. Perfect. I love this little plug. Um, I love the gram. I love the gram. I actually just started on Tik Tok. I'd say like in the fall and I like Tik Tok too, but I'm mostly on the gram like all day every day. So a DM or just follow and let me know that you listen to this podcast. I'd love to connect with new people as you've heard. Um, and I work with women one-on-one right now, just strictly solely one-on-one. Um, I have in-person space. I'm renting office space. Just as new for me. I love meeting people in person. Yeah. Um, Meghan Houle (56:00.287) Oh, that's awesome. Oh, good. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Kaitlynn (56:03.966) And then I do everything virtually too. So if you're a local girly, I live in the Burbs of Boston. I would love to connect with you even just for coffee. Like I love, obviously like we did, I love driving into the city and being a city girl for 24 hours, but I am a Boston Burbs girl. But yeah, one-on-one just for me. Meghan Houle (56:09.699) Yeah. Meghan Houle (56:20.203) You do. Yeah, great. No, and we'll get all the links and everyone go down into the show notes, click all the follows, link up with Caitlin. I know we have something in the works where we need to put together like another little bigger event bringing some women together, but I love these like micro pop-ups too where you can just really sit down and get to know. Kaitlynn (56:29.066) Yeah. Kaitlynn (56:33.085) Yeah. Kaitlynn (56:41.175) You too. Meghan Houle (56:43.211) someone even on a deeper level and just build connection and community and make new friends. I mean, that's just been on my radar for many, many years. So I cannot tell you how much I love you and just like fearlessly support all that you're doing and appreciate also all the support that you give me over the years of just being in each other's space and kind of showing up at events and like finally meeting each other in real life and like just kind of cultivating this. Kaitlynn (56:49.13) Mmm. Yeah. Kaitlynn (57:01.614) Yeah. Kaitlynn (57:04.724) Yeah. I know. Meghan Houle (57:09.427) incredible relationship. So I'm so proud of you and I can't wait to see what continues on to have in store also too with all the fun times you spend with your family and you get out there and you live your life. So good for you girl. Like you got it and good luck with everything and we can't wait to see you again and connect with you further. So thanks for being here. Stay tuned ladies. Kaitlynn (57:18.798) I know. Yeah. Thank you, Megan. Thank you. Yes. Stay tuned, girls. Stay tuned. We got something percolating. Yes. Meghan Houle (57:34.587) Also pick what you're gonna work on and we're gonna follow up. So, oh yeah, Caitlin, I mean, all the downloads here, so no scares, but thank you so much, Caitlin. Thank you. Kaitlynn (57:38.454) Send us a DM. You know, I'm a follow-up queen, so that's like, so my therapy days. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Megan. All right, take.