Pivot With Purpose Season 5 Episode 6 Meha Agrawal Full Transcript

Meghan Houle (00:01.214) Welcome to the pivot with purpose podcast. How are you my friend? It's so good to have you on finally. Yes Meha (00:09.142) Megan, one thing, my name is pronounced Meha. So can we redo it? Yeah, let's see. Meghan Houle (00:13.182) Oh, I'm sorry. So what's that? Yes. Ready? One, two, three, Justin, cut this. Meha, welcome to the Pivot With Purpose podcast. How are you? Thank you so much for coming on. Long time coming, my friend. It's so good to have you. Meha (00:30.374) I am so excited to be here. I'm doing well and I can't wait to chat on all the things. Meghan Houle (00:36.202) So tell me as we dive in and we're going to get through into your career pivots, like where are we catching you now? Like what's going on? What season error are you in? Are you Swifty? Like what's... That's a burning question. Meha (00:49.206) So you're catching me right towards the end of the year. It's where we're approaching the last month of the year, which is always our busiest time of the season. So I've been working on Silk and Saunders, which I'm sure we'll get into for the past couple of years and November, December, January, while the rest of the world is unwinding, taking our holiday breaks. My team and I are in full gear, just trying to get Silk and Saunders into the hands. of as many women as possible because new year, new me, and I am so ready for 2024, the year of more, whatever more means to you, more balance, more money, more abundance, more prosperity, whatever it is, I'm just, I'm here for it. So that's the season you're catching me in, all cylinders firing. Meghan Houle (01:22.782) Yeah, I know. Meghan Houle (01:40.47) I love it. No, and I think it's going to be a great time as our episode launches. And right, people are thinking about New Year's. I don't know. I'm not a huge resolutions person because I feel like when you resolve to do something, maybe you're putting force behind it. Sometimes it doesn't always stick. More of maybe building habits and healthy routines, which I think journaling. and really setting intentions. And for all that you offer in Silk and Saunders, we'll totally get into it, gives you a pathway, right? To stay on track and stay consistent. And you almost look forward to it, right? You get up and you're like, okay, I gotta do my rituals or whatever that means. But truly it's not just like this woo like rituals. And I just have so many friends and I'm sure you and I are cut from the same cloth that like truly like live by these. Meha (02:16.683) Absolutely. Meha (02:26.204) Totally. Meghan Houle (02:35.114) boundaries of like, this is like a non negotiable for my mornings, right? I feel like we all have those non negotiables. Why not be able to add something like this in that really sets up your day for success. But also, you get to kind of like release some things and I know you have all kinds of cool exercise. So I can't wait to jump into it. But in the heart of this podcast, your career journey is one where what you're doing today is not necessarily Meha (02:36.128) Yeah. Absolutely. Meha (02:45.439) 100%. Meghan Houle (03:00.418) where you started. So can you share a bit about your background and journey from really being in finance to a software engineer to becoming CEO of Silk and Saunders? Saunders, what were some of those pivotal moments in that journey to lead you where you are today? Yeah. Meha (03:18.558) Absolutely. So I think, you know, when I think about my career trajectory, it really traces back and stems from my upbringing and childhood. So I'm the first child of South Asian immigrants. My dad's a professor. My mom also worked at the university. You know, he taught computer science. So growing up, I was really made to believe that success would be in one of four paths. I could be an academic, a lawyer. a doctor or an engineer. And so, you know, I think back to who I was at my core, you know, pre kindergarten, I was always playing outside, I was playing with my Barbies, I loved puzzles, I loved math, but I also liked reading, like there was just so much multi dimensionality to my day to day. And then I got forced into structure. And I happened to be good academically. And so that began this path of chasing gold stars, building safety nets. really anchoring in this idea of my parents sacrificed everything to give me and my sister the better life. So I should do the things I'm capable of doing that will bring, you know, money to the table. And so I ended up studying computer science and business. That was a very strategic decision at the time because I knew in my gut that I had many interests. And so if I wanted to be an engineer, I wanted to pick a discipline that would give me the flexibility to work. in a variety of industries. And so computer science was like golden ticket, right? People don't realize that computer science is really this, it's not just programming and building software. It's really the study of solving problems. And I didn't realize it at the time, but it's been such a valuable tool to have that training under my belt. At the time I was like, oh, I don't like computer science, it's so hard, but because I can do it, I'll just do it anyways. And so that's what led me. to start my career out at Goldman Sachs in New York, building financial software for the liquidity risk trading division, and then quickly realized finance was not my calling nor my interest. And so joined the startup industry, worked for a company called The Muse, which was led by Catherine Minshew and Alex Cavalakis. And that was my first foray into entrepreneurship and realizing that there was a path beyond the four that I listed that felt Meha (05:37.03) more exciting for me. And so I doubled in a couple side projects, nothing really took off, moved back to California, worked at Stitch Fix, which at the time was on the verge of going public. And again, another female founded business. And so I'm very grateful for these role models beyond my parents and other people that I had been raised with to give me that opportunity to even think about a pivot, like what I ended up doing, which is starting my own company. Meghan Houle (06:02.79) Yeah. Oh my gosh. Stitch Fix. Let's just like go back to that. Were you in the early stages? Like I remember, I think I got into Stitch Fix. I don't know. One of my friends had posted about it and this was like early on socials. And I was like, I wound up getting onto the Stitch Fix and then I was doing the quiz and then all of a sudden my husband was like, what are all these boxes of clothes like getting delivered? I'm like, mind your business, you know, but. Meha (06:07.242) Yes. Ah. Meha (06:22.399) Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Meghan Houle (06:30.306) How cool, so were you on the ground floor of creating the software for all that stitch fix became to be really, so cool, yeah. Meha (06:38.674) Yeah, great question. You know what's so interesting about Stitch Fix, it's kind of like Silk and Saunders, I feel like they had really great early product market fit. So even by the time I joined, which was several years, maybe four or five years after that initial launch of Stitch Fix, they were very successful by the time I had joined, and we're doing hundreds of millions in revenue by then, but it still operated very much like a startup. So I was working. Meghan Houle (06:47.991) Mmm. Meha (07:04.266) on the engineering tools that the merchandisers used to plan and allocate inventory so that people could get delightful, you know, box unboxing experiences. But that core experience like still exists today, right? That delightful unboxing, surprise and delight. So that part I very much was involved in because it was such a core piece to the business from the start and even by the time I got there. Meghan Houle (07:32.434) Yeah, oh, so cool. Well, you kind of referenced this in the beginning, but do you feel like who you are today is sort of that childhood kind of person that you were back then? I don't know, it's always so interesting to see, like, what were you like as a little kid? And is that kind of the same? And of course we mature and things change, but to our core. Meha (07:49.106) It's so interesting. Yeah. Meha (07:54.687) Yeah. Meghan Houle (07:57.282) We have those things. So, I mean, do you feel like you have a lot of those like childhood tendencies like in your soul that allows you to show up professionally now too? Yeah. Meha (07:57.311) Yeah. Meha (08:04.738) Yeah, that's a great question and something that I actively kind of work on in my own coaching and also in the content that we put forth for Silken Sonder. You know, it's been a recent revelation that us tinkering our inner child and regardless of whether you had a healthy upbringing and a fortunate one or not, you know, there are there's essence, there's essence to who we are as little children and where how we shine and Yeah, honestly, I didn't realize it when I first started the business. But when I look at how I operate my days today and what lights me up, I definitely have noticed that creative spark is very much core to who I am and who I was as a kid. And it's not that I lost that completely, but it felt very constraining, right? When you're in college and you're competing against all these people to get that A in the class or A on the paper and, you know, valedictorian and high school, like all of these things, it's just That's just not, that was not something that truly validated me. And I think I noticed that switch from external validation, doing things for my parents, doing things for teachers, doing things to feel like I needed this check mark. And now I'm doing things from a place of like joy and curiosity and even when things aren't going well, instead of attacking it as, oh my God, I failed. It's more of like, oh, we have this opportunity to pivot again and. Meghan Houle (09:25.666) Yeah. Meha (09:25.97) experiment. And that's something I don't think we're really taught in high school and college, right? Or elementary school for that matter. It's really like, right or wrong, black and white. Like, it's not like that in business. In business, you might not even realize you're facing a challenge because it's just an obstacle that you have to overcome. And that I think that problem solving and like coming from a space of curiosity, And wanting to change lives is definitely something when I think back to who I am as a person, I was always very empathetic and creative, but I was also curious. Like I wanted to solve problems. I wanted to understand why things were the way that they were. And that's so much of what I do today. Meghan Houle (10:01.622) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (10:05.47) Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I feel like the creative piece of, you know, puzzles and playing and I mean, you see so much of that too in your journals now of like having fun and joy and gosh, what a consistent message from a lot of our guests that come on and you know, for our listeners is these like check the box moments. And I think it's like a period of time where we were kind of brought up or how you were raised of like, Meha (10:13.428) Yes. Yeah. Meghan Houle (10:33.398) you know, follow in the path and like do all the things. And to be honest, that's just like not what this new generation is all about. They're like, don't box me in. You know, our priorities are quite different. So I don't know, lucky for this generation. I know, just get that they have individuals that are like us paving the way because I don't know if you agree. Do you feel like you had a lot of mentors growing up that like really got you and wanted to see you Meha (10:34.805) Yeah. Meha (10:41.047) Yeah. Totally. Meha (10:57.908) Oh, good question. Meghan Houle (11:00.603) I know I didn't which is why I do what I do today, but what about you? Yeah Meha (11:02.442) Yeah, that's a great question. I think I didn't have mentors. I do think there were certain teachers like my second grade teacher and my sixth grade teacher who saw this gift in me and kind of shaped my confidence more so than my parents ever could have. And I think that definitely kept me always wanting to explore more when people said you know, you need to focus, you need to pick one path. I was still doing like mock trial, leadership, engineering academy, like all the things because I wanted, I felt like truly that's what I wanted to do. But growing up and being in college and post-college, no, I definitely didn't have mentors. And to be honest, even today, like my mentors, some of them are tactical mentors, but most of them are kind of at an arm, you know, it's pretty far out there. Like they're a successful business. Meghan Houle (11:44.376) Yeah. Meghan Houle (11:53.827) Mm-hmm. Meha (11:56.498) owners that may not even know that I exist or still consider exists. And I think there is this concept around choosing elements of people you admire within your circle and outside of your circle and realizing that you're not really trying to be exactly like someone else. So that notion of a true mentor may not exist but how can we borrow inspiration from each of these folks even if we're not necessarily connected to them. Meghan Houle (12:23.45) Yeah, and I you know, the power of networking and like, putting yourself in rooms where individuals like you look up to listening to podcasts. I mean, obviously, there's so many resources we have now than we ever had before. We're gonna get like the yellow pages and like, oh, here's this business that I'd love to get to know the order. You know, there was really nothing like that back in the day. So yeah. Meha (12:37.666) Yeah. Totally. Meha (12:44.846) Yes. Some people listening to this podcast probably don't even know what the yellow means. Yeah. Meghan Houle (12:50.466) They're like, what's a yellow? Oh God, there's gonna be so many like social media clips. Like, we'll just go down like an 80s and 90s path. Yeah, that could be a whole podcast. But so motivation to change, you know, coming out, kind of understanding like where you were, being at Stitch Fix, getting through all the things. I know you mentioned a lot in reading about you and all that you share, that leading up to creating Silken Sonder, Meha (12:54.87) Yeah. Meha (13:18.914) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (13:20.578) you were waking up feeling overwhelmed and under fulfilled despite having it all on paper, right? Sometimes you're like, oh my God, my life looks so great. But we're like, ooh, we're just not feeling it. And that really hits with me because, and I also feel like a lot of our listeners can relate going through the job motions, right? And feeling like life is just too short to wake up and be like, what am I doing? So was there a specific moment or realization that led you to make that transition Meha (13:27.082) Mm-hmm. Meha (13:31.231) Yeah. Meha (13:39.031) Uh huh. Meghan Houle (13:50.198) what I quote, like we're doing air quotes here people, a stable career, right? With what you're doing, you know, with Stitch Fix and like Pivots there into entrepreneurship. Like what was that moment? Like what was that motivation for change? Meha (13:54.391) Yeah. Meha (14:00.662) Mm hmm. Yeah. So I think the feelings right of what you described, that was a compounding impact. Like it was almost like this quarter life crisis over time, probably the span of six months to a year where I was I was dating a new guy, my then boyfriend, now husband. I was working at a company on the verge of going public. I was living in a new city. I had checked everything off. I thought I was living this life that I wanted. And I still didn't feel great waking up. And so that led to this journey of exploration and discovery and... like fear of will I ever feel okay? Like what's going on? But the actual moment for change happened after I had started Silicon Sonder as a side project. So, you know, the journey of building Silicon Sonder was very much from a place of curiosity and discovery of myself. Like I was doing all this research on cognitive behavioral therapy, positive psychology, bullet journaling, and realized, oh, you know, this tool is working for me. I'm creating this guide for myself. Why not? I'm telling everyone about it. Why not bring it to fruition and give people a guided structure that's flexible for their needs, but also guided enough to help get them started, you know, to have intentions and create habits and take action. So I did that. And I think because there were no metrics behind it, I just launched it. And I like, I was really scrappy. I had friends that worked at Facebook, now Metta, you know, at the time. They got $250 per month to add credit. I was like, can I just like use this? If you're not using it, I can be your research project. And I did that. And I got to my first thousand customers through that and word of mouth. And the pivotal moment, I was in Tulum. I had an offer from Bonobos as a product manager. By that point, you know, I basically created Band-Aid Solutions. I'd become a product manager at a company called Fuels and I was gonna go work at Bonobos. And... Meghan Houle (15:41.986) Like, yeah. Meha (16:05.49) I was a CEO on the side and my then, I guess he was then my boyfriend, you know, now husband, kind of looked at me and he was like, what do you have to lose? Like you've built your safety nets. I'm here to support you. Like just try it. Give yourself a timeline and see if like Silken Sonder has legs to scale. And it was both like very scary to get that constructive feedback, let alone from someone you love. Meghan Houle (16:16.239) Mmm. Meha (16:34.282) But I think when he presented it to me that way, I realized, oh my God, that's so right. I could come back to these jobs that I've already created. That's my safety net. The bigger fear I had was around the financial risk. So I think, you know, I tell every entrepreneur this, I think we don't talk about how to mitigate that risk. Everyone has a different risk appetite for finances. I know I live in from a place of scarcity sometimes. And so, Meghan Houle (16:48.844) you Meha (17:01.078) just figuring out what is your personal runway? Is it six months? Is it three months? Is it two weeks? Like just figure it out and also consult on the side if you need a little cushion, if things aren't going perfectly okay. Like you have skills that can be utilized. And that was the moment for me where I came back to Bonobos and I said, hey, I wanna try my startup idea. And they said, you know, let us know. If things change six months down the line, let us know. And that Megan did wonders because I just felt in the back of my head, I could go back to stuff. Meghan Houle (17:25.671) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Meha (17:30.41) And that's what led me to make the decision. And it wasn't easy. Like it was definitely a classic story of running out of money and then being like, oh my God, I need to really get to scale if I want to pay myself a salary, but it lights a fire under your butt. And it was awesome. And I've never looked back since. Meghan Houle (17:47.566) Yeah, well, I don't know what song this is from for any people that like Broadway or listen to that. Maybe you can like DM us, but it's just that saying, it's either never or now, right? So that's so powerful. But I also feel like that net, and I'm there with you, like, shake you might have a fever so you're talking about scarcity. I think that's the biggest, there's always some fear-based thing. Meha (17:59.179) Yeah. Meha (18:11.609) Totally. Meghan Houle (18:11.83) that holds us all back. You know, even thinking of today of all the different spokes, my will of the businesses and things I want to create. I'm like, you know, you also feel sometimes that overwhelm. And then that worthiness of like, who am I to do this? Who the heck is gonna buy this? Like, who cares? But as long as you care, right? And like, your purpose is strong. And, and I'm sure you've had to now like leave some bounds like Meha (18:21.25) Yeah. Meha (18:27.147) Yeah. Meha (18:30.519) Yeah. Meghan Houle (18:37.238) you know, pitch to investors and show up and being a part of masterminds over this past couple months, it's so interesting of like what really gets to the core of somebody that wants to invest and sees the value in you is you. It's your passion, right? It's sometimes not always about that product. So, you know, in creating Silk and Saunders, how would you say that this tool that you developed from Meha (18:51.222) Yeah. Meghan Houle (19:01.846) you know, the inspiration behind the cognitive approach and you know, all of these self-development things. And I don't know, I feel like there's like some KPIs in there too of just like actionable items and situations that you need to kind of like sit down and reflect on like, how do you feel like Silk and Saunders really differs from everything else? Because that's, that is a key point too, because there's a million journal things out there, just like there's a million recruiters, a million coaches, all that I do. Meha (19:25.39) Totally. Yeah. Meghan Houle (19:29.122) But no one's you, right? And I feel like there's a special surprise and delight moments that just like set you apart. So what is that for Silk and Saunders for you? What does that mean? Yeah. Meha (19:33.89) Yeah. Meha (19:37.47) Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things that really set Silken Sonder apart. So for those of you listening who don't know what Silken Sonder is, it's a self-care and self-improvement program or method that uses guided journaling and emotional health tracking to help people discover who they are, where they want to go, and how to get there. And the modes that we use for achieving that is our guided journals, which are new every month. They have consistent structure for your habit tracking, your intention setting, et cetera, but we explore a new topic. And so there's a lot of science behind what novelty does to your brain. And that's extremely unique versus other journals out there are generic. You kind of get either a year long one or even if they're monthly, it's just a planner or it's just a journal. There's nothing really that combines it, but more importantly, it's not new. So you're not exploring new areas of self. You're not building new skills. You're not... enhancing your confidence or your cognitive function by having that novelty effect. So that's something that's very different. And we have a companion mobile app, which houses extended content around that particular topic. And so novelty is definitely one factor, but the most important factor and what nobody is doing out there, whether you look at the comms and the head spaces of the world or any of these journals and planners, which I would say are kind of like the two big competitor buckets. Meghan Houle (21:01.009) Mm-hmm. Meha (21:02.406) no one has community as thoughtfully, they either don't have community at all, or they have a Facebook group and they call it community. That is my superpower. I think that is something that I think comes very natural for me and the way we organically created community at the beginning of Silicon Sonder is what's really integrated and intertwined throughout the product experience. So you get your journal, you have access to all this content that. Meghan Houle (21:05.282) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Meha (21:29.35) is created by the brand, but you also have access to all this content that's created by other users just like you, who really help with figuring out how to use the different sections that work for you. And then similarly, if you're going through ups or downs, you have this entire squad of women cheering you on or helping uplift you because they've been through something similar. And there's just nothing like it out there. And so I think community is hands down. you know, beyond noveltating, that's the number one differentiator of silk and sonder. And you don't realize you need it until you're in it. Meghan Houle (22:03.958) Mm hmm. Yeah. And I feel that it's so beautiful because you know, for other product based brands that I love and you know, from fitness, athleisure and whatnot, the community in finding those other people that also love that brand and like making friends and I mean, that's the power of a brand, right? It's like not only people buying into you, but then like you creating this like beautiful experience for individuals to like engage. and be in safe spaces with like minded individuals and maybe be vulnerable and things like that. So I just, I love that piece of it too. And I love that you, all that you have in your offerings. And in terms of the monthly, like I think it's almost like a key phrase for a month, right, where you get your journals and there's a beautiful handwritten note from you. And it's just like also very, so personalized. Meha (22:37.773) Yeah. Meha (22:55.224) Yeah. Meha (23:01.312) Yeah. Meghan Houle (23:03.426) Do you plan those out like years in ahead and like what inspires you like every month? Like how? Like how? Where's you get that from? Like help me? Yeah. Meha (23:05.379) Hehehe Meha (23:10.01) Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. Yeah, because I do, I mean, I do the editor's notes. We have these things called daily rituals, which are these mini mindset coaching exercises that people get access to through the app, which I record. I wish it was yours in advance. It's probably at most or at best a couple months in advance just because I'm doing so many things in operating the business. But honestly, it's... Meghan Houle (23:27.072) Mm-hmm. Meha (23:36.87) It's something that I think I did on accident. Like it wasn't necessarily, it was almost like, because journaling is so personal and, you know, I love what motivates me and what gets me out of bed every morning is hearing people's success stories with Silken Sonder. And these are real women just like me. They might not look and speak like me, but they're every, you know, they're from every single state of the country. And it just makes me feel. so connected to what I'm doing. I can see the direct impact that I have on the team and the customers by just being me. And I think that editors know and the daily rituals and the stuff that in my random notes on emails. And I write in Sonder Club, which is our community forum. It just humanizes our brand. It makes everyone around, in the Silicon Sonder community, realize that I'm on this journey. Meghan Houle (24:23.927) Mm-hmm. Meha (24:29.41) just as much as they are. Like I'm not, I'm an expert in many ways, but like every other expert, we're still dealing with our own human lives and there's something that we have to gain from everyone else. And that's, I think the magic of Silken Saunders. It's truly in this idea or this notion that no matter who you are, how old you are, where you come from, you have a story to share. You have wisdom to give and you have something to gain. And this is what Silken Saunders all about. We're all teachers and we're all students. Meghan Houle (24:59.944) Yeah. What did it take for you to get Silk and Sonder off the ground? So what was that? Yeah. What did that journey look like for you? Mm-hmm. Meha (25:06.27) Yeah. Yeah, it's funny because in some ways, as much as I hate to admit it, it was a total grand pivot to what I was working on right before. So I was dabbling in a side project. It was in the luxury wedding planning space. I never really like launched it. I was just coding it with zero customers and user interviewing my way to death, but like not doing anything with it. So Meghan Houle (25:15.191) Hmm Meghan Houle (25:21.675) Yeah. Meha (25:30.47) in that experience, right? I think this goes back to like, why was I not feeling fulfilled? It's probably because I had this entrepreneurial bug, but I didn't feel like I had something to fully take the leap. So for two weeks, just decided to try building a prototype, had a friend help with the graphic design stuff, figured out a printing press to use, printed things out initially on 8 1⁄2 by 11 to get feedback, that was our prototype, then went and got it produced. Meghan Houle (25:57.909) Mm-hmm. Meha (26:00.502) And I told myself, if I can get $1 from this product from a non-friend customer, then I'll like start to think about this more seriously. So I didn't go from vision to then, you know, come up with a product. I went from problem I wanna solve, potential product to solve that problem. And then I started to build a vision once I started to do the user research and see that we had something much bigger than the journal or the tool at play. And yeah, it was really just... I think it was under a month, it was two weeks to launch the actual product and another two weeks to try to market it. And I think within a year we had over a thousand subscribers, paying subscribers. Meghan Houle (26:41.57) Wow. Yeah. Did you have to do to then continue to build? Was there a lot of fundraising? Did you kind of like bootstrap? Like, what did that look like when you hit that threshold? And you're like, Whoa, there's something here. Now, you can't do it all yourself as we know. Or else it's a very detrimental than what was that like next phase for you? What did that look like? Yeah. Meha (26:49.432) Yeah. Meha (26:55.986) Yeah. Meha (27:03.762) Yeah. So I bootstrapped on the side and then I made a decision to go full time. And I basically had two options at that point, right? I could build a bootstrap business, try to figure out how to pay myself and go from there, or I could go out and get venture funding. And the decision around that was to really meditate on what... What's my calling here? Is it to just have a multimillion dollar business where I pocket most of it and I live this amazing life, like a lifestyle business, or is this something even bigger? And when I started to read my user stories and the impact that I'm having, which at the time was like a journal on a Facebook group, because I didn't have funding to build the app, I realized... Oh my God, Silk and Saunders has the potential to not just change lives and transform lives, but to save lives. I'm onto something much bigger than myself. We have to accelerate our global footprint on, you know, self-care, self-improvement. We need to be empowering women worldwide and their communities. This is gonna require funding if I wanna get there fast, especially in my lifetime. And so that decision to build a legacy brand really stemmed from... Meghan Houle (28:17.898) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Meha (28:24.362) from that observation and realizing it's much bigger than myself, it's much bigger than the journal. And so that's what led to me going out. I did a round of pre-seed funding, and then within a year I did another round of seed funding and that was in the midst of the pandemic. And yeah, that decision was because I wanted to build a bigger platform and have more accelerated impact. Meghan Houle (28:38.541) Wow, yeah. Meghan Houle (28:46.27) I mean, what a time, you know, for the brands, unfortunately, for where I support in like retail and physical stores, having something digital. I mean, look at how many of those like digital community, like fitness and all the people, you know, who had to pivot and we were all doing the crazy, like Vimeo's or whatever we could to like get online. And now there's like a million, like there are virtual tools to use, but you kind of already had something in place, right? So did you... Meha (28:48.469) Yeah. Meha (29:00.352) Yeah. Meha (29:07.537) Yeah. Meha (29:13.715) Yeah, yeah. Meghan Houle (29:15.478) Did you feel in 2020, like, was there a huge uptick in the business and the brand? Yeah, yeah. Meha (29:18.838) Yeah, it was really interesting, right? Because people were losing their jobs and at the same time people were suddenly at home forced to like either just figure it out, right? Yeah, exactly. But we definitely, I think what happened in 2020, which was such, I mean, as horrible as the pandemic was, the trend that was in our favor and something that's not going away is the importance of... Meghan Houle (29:24.056) Yeah. Meghan Houle (29:28.018) Right. Bake bread. Right. Meghan Houle (29:35.212) Yeah. Meha (29:46.098) understanding ourselves, understanding our boundaries, understanding mental health, being not just a sliver of your entire being, but really being the nucleus or the node of how everything else in your life is going. And that shift from reactive approaches to your mental wellbeing to being more proactive because all of a sudden everyone was adapting and it was so uncomfortable. We had to figure it out as an entire world. I think that... is something I couldn't have predicted, but has definitely played in our favor in 2020 and beyond. So yeah, I think silicon saunders is not just a painkiller, it's also a vitamin for many. Meghan Houle (30:21.031) Yeah. Meghan Houle (30:27.974) It's your daily dose of self-awareness and hopefully happiness. And I know you kind of took out the next question, but yes, approaching mental health from a proactive point of view. I mean, can you elaborate on the importance of that proactivity and prioritizing well-being? I mean, especially in context of like careers and personal development, but like you said, I mean, the pandemic and even beyond. I mean, Meha (30:30.719) Yeah. Meha (30:43.16) Yeah. Meha (30:50.635) Yeah. Meghan Houle (30:55.498) we set our boundaries, we reset our boundaries, then we thrust ourselves back into the busy lives. And, but I will tell you what I see in the job market and this year especially is we're not putting up with the terrible work cultures anymore. Like people will just leave versus like having the Sunday scaries every day and waking up. And, you know, I think that there was a nice movement and some people are still working through it of saying like Meha (30:59.608) Yeah. Meha (31:17.035) Yeah. Meghan Houle (31:23.646) I'm not going to tolerate this because this is not fueling me, my soul, healthy for me. But it's so dangerous in these toxic environments where it really, really affects that individual. And it's physical, like all the things where stress can manifest. But yeah, talk about the importance of that in really prioritizing being proactive, and especially when it comes to careers development. I mean, that's what a lot of people listening in are. Meha (31:33.723) Mm-hmm. Meha (31:40.811) Yeah. Meha (31:49.055) Yeah. Meghan Houle (31:51.31) constantly talking about my career. How do I survive? You know, yeah. Meha (31:52.626) Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, so I actually, I have a course on core values because I think when I think about, you know, individuals and why we feel stressed, why we feel anxious, why we label our work environments as toxic or why our relationships as toxic, it's typically because you're feeling these feelings in your body that can be labeled anxiety or stress or burnout or, you know, sadness or whatever it might be. Meghan Houle (32:00.672) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Meha (32:22.55) but it's usually because you're operating outside of alignment to who you authentically are. And in order to figure out who you authentically are, that's where journaling comes into play. That's where things like my core values master of class come into play because you can then start to label, oh, I actually really care about being outside and I care about my being close to family. And if you don't take a step back to really reflect what gives you joy, you can't design your life around it. And so... Meghan Houle (32:50.891) Right, yeah. Meha (32:51.65) For example, when I look back, I care so much about my freedom, time freedom, financial freedom, creative freedom, freedom to be my full self, all of this stuff. And when I was working my nine to five, it just felt so constraining because I couldn't just take two hours and do whatever I wanted. I had to be at my desk doing whatever task I was assigned to do. And it sounds so simple, but when... you realize, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs, that is one of our core values, and that's something we share. And that's why we choose to work our butts off to allow for that flexibility that you don't get in a typical job. For others, it might be safety, security, structure. And in that case, maybe you're totally fine with your day to day. And so I think regardless of what your career path is, you need to take a step back. And the thing I always tell companies when I do workshops for them is Meghan Houle (33:30.571) Yeah. Meghan Houle (33:37.27) Yeah. Meha (33:47.518) we've been talking about work-life balance for decades now, right? You bring work into home. Why is it that we can't bring a little bit of home into work? And what I mean by that is I really believe in work-life harmony. And I do think, you know, you know, I say this with our silk and sawnor employees. I don't think at this stage of silk and sawnor, people can work at silk and sawnor unless they're driven by our purpose and our impact, because people work a lot. It is, it is, you know, it's not like clock in clock out. And. Meghan Houle (33:50.626) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (34:12.678) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (34:16.204) Right. Meha (34:16.906) I think when we think about work-life balance, we think that there are these really strict boundaries, but in reality, we should be creating and fostering a culture in our corporate environments where we understand what Megan's strengths are so that we can bring more of that into the workplace. When she's having an off day, she feels comfortable talking about why, but then shows up the next day tenfold, right? Like I think creating those safe spaces where we can be honest about what's bothering us. Meghan Houle (34:38.934) Right. Meha (34:44.49) or what's inspiring us outside of work is what allows us to be more productive on the job. And so I think that's the conversation we need to be having is how do we foster these environments at work that are about work-life harmony? You shouldn't feel bad if you're thinking about work, you know, off work hours because you're so inspired by the work that you're doing, if you're lucky enough to do that, or vice versa. Like how do we create the space for you to come back in and be like... Meghan Houle (34:50.175) Yeah. Meghan Houle (35:10.711) Right. Meha (35:11.626) You know, I want to do XYZ because I think I'm really good at it, or I need to do something creative because it makes me more productive at work. And that all stems from understanding yourself. And I don't think people put in the time. They see it as work. I used to see it as self-discovery was like work. I was like, I don't have time for that. That's boring. What's that going to do? You know? And it's just a weekend project. That's the other thing. If you're feeling off, you're never going to get out of your trap unless like you spend some time on yourself nights and weekends. Just do it. Meghan Houle (35:18.295) Yeah. Meghan Houle (35:24.587) Yeah. Meghan Houle (35:29.318) Yeah. Meghan Houle (35:33.719) Yeah. Meghan Houle (35:42.83) crazy and that is something I learned going through coaching, really not to keep going back to the pandemic, but I think 2020 gave me a moment to be like, feeling like I was meant for more, still in the career that I have been doing for a very long time, but doing the coaching and the work on myself, allowed me the self discovery of like, oh wow, I'm here, but I can be here. Meha (36:08.61) Yeah. Meghan Houle (36:08.65) and my voice does matter and I have things to say and you kind of get out of that ego significance mindset but you sit down and you're really like, Who am I? Like, I feel like that's what I truly had to do. And now I mean, how lucky that the Silken Saunders out there because I know that you give so many prompts and it is hard work and when I coach people one on one, it's the first thing I say in these first couple sessions, you're probably gonna hate me, you're gonna be sick about writing your story and rewriting it. Meha (36:14.862) Mm-hmm. Meha (36:18.954) Yeah. Meghan Houle (36:37.878) But if we don't face the truth about our lives, maybe what we've been through, give ourselves a little credit, right? Because I feel like we're all about just busy girl syndrome. Okay, I did this, onto the next, onto the next, or I really haven't done much in my life. I'm like, really? Okay, let's take a 10-year journey. I'm sure you've done a lot, but we're in this like here and now where everything is Insta, Insta gratification, Instagram, Insta everything, where we seek all these immediate. Meha (36:45.353) Yeah. Meha (36:49.931) Yep. Meha (36:56.376) Yeah. Meha (37:01.504) Yeah. Meghan Houle (37:07.51) fixes. And it's just that's never long term. So doing that deep into work. And that's something that's always ongoing, right? So you can do it. But then you grow and evolve. I'm not the same person today as I was last year as I was three years ago. And I love it, you know, so it's so powerful. How do you prioritize yourself as a CEO in balancing those demands to running a company and maintaining your own mental and emotional well being like where are those boundaries and values for you? Yeah. Meha (37:08.226) Yeah. Meha (37:13.995) Yeah. Meha (37:21.384) Totally. Meha (37:34.514) Yeah. So one thing I've learned, I think when I first... started to be a CEO, I think I would try to fit the mold of what I thought a CEO should be, right? Always busy, always in meetings, like too busy for the team, not being honest about what things are bothering me, etc. And I have come to a realization that the best leaders are authentic leaders, right? They are who they are, and they, you know, whatever that means for them. So for me, my team, my agencies, my freelancers, they know that I'm kind and I'm firm. And what I what that means is some days I'll be very direct with feedback, but it's not intended to make them feel, you know, bad or anything like that. It's truly because I believe in their potential, I believe in the work that we're doing, I believe in our mission. And so it doesn't do anyone any good by not being honest, because then I take that home, and I'm like, spiraling, you know, like, I should have said it this way, because I actually mean that this way. And So I think really giving myself permission to show about work as I would at home, and you know, bites me in the home front too, because my team at least is moving at the same pace as me. My family on the other hand is not, you know? And so when I come in and I'm giving direct feedback, it's very much like, whoa, like that was mean. Yeah, they're like, that was mean. I was like, oh, sorry, like, yeah. But I think like being. Meghan Houle (38:54.782) Right. We're not your employee. You're like, you're off the clock lady. I love that. Yeah. Meha (39:03.726) Very honest with my needs. I am so grateful to have an assistant who really looks out for me and my schedule. And I think honestly, there are times like currently right now, I'm not really abiding by the boundaries that I normally set. I'm very strict about my morning routines typically, but because of the time change and we have some teams abroad, I'm taking meetings earlier than I would normally, and so there are times when I have to be a little bit flexible, but. Meghan Houle (39:06.111) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (39:22.61) Mm-hmm. Meha (39:29.038) What that means is I might need extra time in the afternoon to recharge and then clock back in the evenings. And so I try to be really honest. One thing that really helps me and helps my team is when you're hired at Silk & Saunders, we ask you to write the user guide to working with you. And that allows people to be both reflective, but also honest with when they do their best work. And so we can be cognizant, right? We can't necessarily honor everything that is written, but we can. Meghan Houle (39:34.957) Yeah. Meghan Houle (39:45.671) Oh cool. Meghan Houle (39:55.992) Right. Meha (39:56.79) be aware that someone might have a people pleasing tendency. And so if we know that about them, when they commit to things, we might ask them, are you sure you can do it? Are you just saying yes, because you wanna make me happy? And I think that's something that really helps me and others. And then I would say I'm very, very disciplined or I'm very aware of what things drain me and what things energize me. And so I have a very open conversation with my husband around... weekend plans, what I want to say as to what I don't. And that's really important for one's own mental well-being and self-care is prioritizing your personal time because that is when we recharge and that's often when we're also working without realizing it because we're thinking about the things we didn't have time to think about during the busy workday work week. Meghan Houle (40:29.774) Yes. Yeah. Meghan Houle (40:45.546) Yeah. Oh, I love that you said that, cause I, yeah, in any case of building a business or wherever you are in your career, I mean, there are those seasons where you have to, you know, it's the grind, you put it in, like you said, you try to find that harmony, cause I think balance is sometimes BS, but at the end of the day, you know, you wanna be able to, and at the end of the week, like, Meha (41:03.785) Yeah. Meghan Houle (41:10.446) not look at your weekend plans and be like, Why did I sign up for this? Because then that's what like the anxiety and like, that anger like fees and trust me, I've gotten really good about saying no to things and you can you know, you would help friends, family, anyone in your life understands but I go back to like that Britney Spears song of like everyone wants a piece of me and it's truly like who wants a piece of me? Meha (41:12.018) Yeah, yeah, totally. Meha (41:22.953) Yeah. Meha (41:34.79) Yeah. Meghan Houle (41:35.542) Because right then on the weekends, you're like, okay, I got holiday plans, I'll dinner with this. And sometimes you just wanna like sit home and chill and recharge and we need that. We need that, yeah. Yeah. Meha (41:39.37) Yeah. 100% we need that. It's like you're like you're you have your own battery and it needs to be recharged and some people and this goes back to kind of core values and understanding who you actually are some people you know really get recharged when they're around other people like they just are so yeah god bless them and you know what in some ways I used to be an extrovert but Meghan Houle (42:01.569) I know, God bless you out there. Yeah. Meghan Houle (42:12.044) Yeah. Meha (42:12.29) talking to customers, talking to vendors, like all this stuff. I'm getting that human to human interaction that on the weekends, I wanna just like curl up and like read or watch a movie or like journal or do whatever I want without any commitments. And you know, there's a balance. Obviously if I do that too much and neglect my loved ones, that also affects me, but yeah, it's. Meghan Houle (42:26.511) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (42:29.926) Yeah, no. Right. Yeah, it's a balance. Well, like you said, the energy takers and giver. I mean, it's a lot of energy that you put out, being front facing and holding space for people. And you gotta protect that. And I guess I would say for anyone, look at your calendar, just even on a day to day basis, make sure that you're not waking up and being like, oh God, why did I do this? You just don't want those regrets, right? We call it like deathbed regrets. Meha (42:42.217) Oh yeah. Meha (42:45.762) Yeah. Meha (42:58.254) Totally. Yeah. Meghan Houle (43:03.214) I don't want to go on my last day being like, why did I do this? Like, why did I go to that? Yeah, yeah. Meha (43:06.022) Yeah, well, and also, it's like, I think also giving yourself permission to not feel guilty, right? Like I think, and the guilt is like, is crazy. And I think, I think one thing I'd recommend, regardless of what people's rules are, is if you're feeling depleted, by the end of your week, or into the weekend, or you're getting Sunday scaries, go into your calendar and look at the meetings or the people that are positive or negative, right? And not everyone has a luxury to like not attend a meeting with the person that they don't like, etc. But Meghan Houle (43:11.722) Right? Oh, God, the guilt is bad too. Meghan Houle (43:17.998) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Meha (43:36.116) your weekends are perfect place to do an audit. And maybe you'll come to realize that actually spending Saturday morning, you know, an hour doing your painting stuff before you put on your mommy hat and like do everything with the kids is how you show up better for them. And unless you audit what activities and things give you a joy or how it changes your energy throughout the day, you're never going to know. So just do a little bit of a sweep, like check in with yourself. And it's not... Meghan Houle (44:03.104) Yeah. Meha (44:05.154) hard to put a little plus or minus around all the things that you're saying yes and no do to see how it all flows. Meghan Houle (44:09.278) Right. Yeah, and it is the gil sometimes of like saying no, and that's like a whole podcast episode of like releasing the gil and like that, where that stems from, we don't go down that hole, but those are all such great nuggets. And to just walk us through, cause I feel like it's just so powerful with all that you have going on in Silk and Saunders, like walk us through the journal. Like what do we expect where someone, you know, turns off this episode? Meha (44:17.738) Yeah. Meha (44:22.138) Yeah. Meghan Houle (44:38.498) click social notes goes right to the website. Like give me these journals, set my gear up for success. What to expect, like what do we get in those journals? Yeah, and just the community. Meha (44:40.703) Yeah. Meha (44:45.462) Yes! Meha (44:49.638) Yeah. Great. So hopefully we'll be adding a few folks to the Saunders fam after this episode, but you go to silkandsaunder.com, you choose your plan. There's monthly, quarterly, and annual options. I always recommend if you're on the fence, get quarterly. It takes 21 days to create a habit, 90 days to see transformational change. You got to kind of try it for a couple months and tweak it to see if it works for you. Most of the time it does. If you're like, heck yeah, 2024. you know, I need this year to be great. I'm ready for it. Or even if you're at rock bottom and you're like, I don't know what to do, but like, I need 2024 to be my year. Just take the leap. It's way cheaper to get the annual plan. And because you've invested in yourself and we don't talk about this enough, when you pay for something and you commit to something, you show up. And that's the trick that Silk and Saunders can't control, but you can control. If you're really... Meghan Houle (45:28.346) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Meghan Houle (45:38.134) Show up, yep. Meha (45:44.534) really like on the fence. Sure, you can start with the monthly journal and then you can decide to upgrade later, but you choose that. And while you wait for your journal, you'll start with whatever month, you'll get your first full month, but then you have the option to add the second month at a discounted price. And that allows you to get started right away. We'll send the journals to you. It takes about two to five days to reach your doorstep. But in the meantime, you, it's like school, it's like college, you just get started. You download our app. Meghan Houle (46:12.122) Uh huh. Meha (46:14.122) You introduce yourself to Saunders Club if you'd like. You start poking around in the how-to tutorial sections. We have plenty of things on our website that really are designed to help you decide your routine. When am I gonna commit to myself? How much time do I have? Do I have five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, an hour? Am I feeling anxious in the morning? If so, I'm gonna commit to Silk and Saunders in the morning. If I have trouble going to bed, I'm gonna do it in the evening. So you can kind of start to sort out those routine questions. So by the time Silk and Saunders comes to your doorstep. It will be aligned to a particular theme. You will either get started right away because you chose this month's journal as well, or you'll wait for a couple of weeks until the next month starts. But you can basically attend a Saunders Social, which is a set up community event led by Silken Saunders trained coaches. We walk you through how to actually do different sections of the journal, along with exercises to reflect. on which sections need repurposing. There's a whole chat, live chat, so customers are sharing what worked for them last month, what didn't work, so you'll hear from veterans of the group. So that's definitely available for those that need a lot of inspiration guidance from others. It's really fun. It's like being in a fun workout class. So that's something I'd recommend. And then in the journals themselves, we always recommend you reflect on your previous month, you identify what you wanna start, stop, continue from there. Meghan Houle (47:22.691) Wow. Meghan Houle (47:28.896) Yeah. Meghan Houle (47:32.435) Yeah. Meha (47:41.826) You then create your intentions. And at Silicon Sonder, it's all about holistic wellbeing. So we're not just picking one area of your life. You're thinking about how am I doing in my financial health, my physical health, my romantic health, all of those things. And then from there, you identify your intentions. There's plenty of ways that you can identify what you need more or less of, and then you go into your action plan for the rest of the month. What moods do you wanna track? Do you want to track your sleep? Do you want to track your meals? Do you want to track your habits? You set that all up and then weekly becomes easy. Daily becomes easy because you're just checking in and you're kind of choosing whether to make your columns and the day-to-day spread around action-oriented stuff, like a to-do list, or is it your space to reflect? So people kind of tend to choose Silicon Sound as more of a planner or a journal. And then the app has a ton of personalized journaling prompts. Meghan Houle (48:16.586) Yeah. Meghan Houle (48:28.764) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Meha (48:36.894) affirmations, and it's kind of like a secondary tool that's in your pocket or purse all day long. So you wake up and go to bed with Silken Saunders and it's amazing. Meghan Houle (48:47.642) Oh, that's great. And two, even in between work, to have the app scrolling on your phones instead of being on the Insta machine and like, oh, so-and-so got engaged. Oh, my life is over. It's like, go on the Silk and Sonder app. Put some positive feels into you. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Meha (48:54.926) Yep. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Totally. It's like a daily boost of positivity. And everyone needs that. Even if you're like positive poly, like you still need that extra dose of healthy positivity. Meghan Houle (49:11.308) Yeah. What's your favorite part of the journal? Like what did you just like love creating about it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Meha (49:17.039) Oh. Well, okay, I'll tell you my favorite part, but I'll tell you the part that I use the most. So my favorite part of the journal is probably what I use. What I what I love about creating the content for Silicon Sonder is choosing the surprise and delight pages because those change every month. And, you know, we try to pick like psychology exercises, things that like a life coach or a therapist would give you, as well as those fun bullet journaling types. So that's like my favorite part. But ironically, that's what I use the least because I use Silk and Sonner more as a planner. And so my favorite page that I actually use is the weekly spread. So it's like every Sunday, I have this ritual. I attend a Sonner social at four o'clock on Sundays. And from there, I set up my week. What are the top three things I'm gonna do? What's my laundry list of to-dos? What are the weekly habits? What's on my shopping list for the week? Sometimes I repurpose that into like a self care bingo, three by three. Meghan Houle (49:52.167) Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (49:55.739) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (50:01.279) Cool. Yeah. Meghan Houle (50:11.03) Yeah. Meha (50:15.31) grid. So it's just a really fun way to do that weekly check in with yourself. And it's so well structured from for me and for my brain. And it's also very easily adaptable. So I change it week to week depending on what I need. But I love, love that page. And I'm totally, I'm totally scatterbrained if I don't do that. So yeah. Meghan Houle (50:16.135) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (50:21.883) Yeah. Meghan Houle (50:30.784) Yeah. Meghan Houle (50:34.962) Uh, same. I know. Oh, I mean, I, I need to, I'm going to be the one to log off first and go by 2024 year because I'm the same. And I feel like with every, I have like 10,000 notebooks. I'm like a collector of notebooks and pens. So, and cats and well, you know, all this stuff. Wine, as we, we've shared our love for Napa. But, um, if you don't plan out your week, right? I feel... Meha (50:45.133) Yeah. Meha (50:49.674) Yeah. Yep. Meghan Houle (51:01.238) disc like discombobulated on a Sunday if I'm out or saying yes to something and I'm like, why am I at this dinner? I'm like, I need to do my weekly planning. Do it in the morning. But I think it really sets you up for success. But like you said, however you want to use it. I also love the daily reflections. The mood is really awesome. Like say you're feeling a certain way and you're like, I got to change my attitude or change my actions or something. Why are you showing up feeling like blast? Meha (51:03.159) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Meha (51:19.914) Yeah. Yeah. Meghan Houle (51:29.61) every day and just like really kind of checking yourself on a daily basis and like maybe some of those triggers and things like that. So so cool. And then on the apps too, like do you do like courses or like you say you have like speakers? Are there any like other special surprise things people can look forward to or how does that work? Meha (51:29.681) Yeah, yeah. Meha (51:34.21) Totally. Meha (51:45.28) Yeah. Meha (51:49.987) Yeah. So in our app, we have daily rituals, which are led by me, they're coaching exercises. So you go deeper on your Silken Sawner journey through that. In addition to that, we have bingos. So fun little activities that you can do as a little challenge for yourself, small things, right? Going outside, all the things that we know help elevate our emotional wellbeing. And then the courses, some of them are led by me, some of them are exclusive webinars Meghan Houle (51:59.435) Yeah. Meghan Houle (52:12.042) Yes. Meha (52:21.648) month over month. So even if you haven't been a member for Silken Saunders, you can get those a la carte on courses through Silken Saunders app as well as website. And we're constantly adding more to the mix. And so I always say Silken Saunders kind of like your self care buffet, you have your core, but then there's other things that we that we add in that you might not even realize you're already going to be paying for because we just surprise and delight you down the line as a member. So Meghan Houle (52:47.462) Yeah, something to look forward to. What are, yeah, what goes on in those community chats? Like, what do you, is there a common theme that's come up? And like, what has been the common theme for 2023? Like, what are people struggling with? Yeah, yeah. Meha (52:49.962) Something to look forward to. Meha (52:55.022) Oh. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you this. One of the things that's been on the roadmap for Silicon Sonder that we definitely are going to be doing in 2020-4 is making this concept around micro communities and accountability pods a little bit easier, right? So even without a Silicon Sonder trained coach, you guys can meet together and hold each other accountable and stay motivated. What I love in the chat is just how... So facilitators, when they host and the coaches, when they host... Meghan Houle (53:06.156) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Meha (53:26.826) these events, they're also sharing their own reflections of the week or they're giving examples. And what that does is it creates a safe space for everybody who's in the chat to also share. So people are sharing their rosebud thorns for the week and the amount of vulnerability and support that we see, right? People are dealing with heavy things. Some people are losing their loved ones. Some people are having a new baby. Like there's positives and negatives, but the way that are Meghan Houle (53:45.143) Yeah. Meha (53:56.27) community, despite being strangers, shows up for one another is just fascinating. And you see, you know, what social media has done to us. It's torn us apart. We, you know, cancel each other left and right. We're, we're comparing ourselves to others. When you come to Silken Saunders, it's a totally different human experience. We may have completely different views of the world, politically, socially, whatever, but we are on our personal growth journeys together. And so the way that one can support each other. Meghan Houle (54:01.518) Hmm. Meghan Houle (54:15.962) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (54:20.534) Mm-hmm. Meha (54:26.65) even if you're different from one another, is just, that's true humanity. And that's what you see in the chats, that's what you see in Saunders Club. And you can even try our app for free for seven days, and you'll see the outpouring of support, inspiration, you know, empowerment. And people are leaving Instagram and Facebook and TikTok to just be part of Silk and Saunders, because it gives them that social fix without it being social media. So. Meghan Houle (54:30.503) Yeah. Meghan Houle (54:52.03) Right, oh, right. And then feeling like, well, you can't say that, or God forbid. And then you're right. Yeah, all the things that are going on in our lives. So that is so special. And reflecting on your own personal journey, before I let you go, a few more questions. What growth or lessons have you gained that you didn't anticipate when you first started this venture? Yeah. Meha (54:56.574) Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Meha (55:15.534) Ooh, yeah, great question. Honestly, I think one is I am, I think I'm the only one that gets in my own way. I think I've proven time and again that I have what it takes to run a successful business, inspire a team. You don't have to have previous experience in a particular discipline to figure it out. So I think that's been a huge learning lesson for me is, Meghan Houle (55:30.094) MMMM Meha (55:44.882) I don't always need an expert to solve the problem. I can figure out things just by learning. And, you know, I think if there's one skill that every entrepreneur needs, it's to be curious. If you're not curious, if you're not interested in diving in, you're not gonna be a successful entrepreneur. I think that's the number one trait that really differentiates good versus great entrepreneurs. And I would say the other growth lesson is on the personal growth front as well. Like I think... I think being me, like truly accepting my quirks, how I evolve over time, being okay, being honest with my team when I'm stressed or when I'm fine, I think we put a lot of pressure, especially as female founders, we feel like we need to fit this definition of a CEO and people just wanna work, they wanna feel connected to you as a human. And so I think... Meghan Houle (56:30.527) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (56:38.538) Yeah. Meha (56:41.218) That's been a big lesson for me because I would try to take myself out of the weeds because I thought that's what I'm supposed to do. But I realized I kind of enjoy being in the weeds and also that is what you need to do. And I think a lot of CEOs think companies can be built by just hiring people and then executing on your vision. Newsflash and Brian, yeah, you're the vision. And Brian Chesky talked about this recently on a podcast. It's like there's a difference between micromanaging and... Meghan Houle (56:54.466) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (57:01.218) No, you're the vision. Yeah. Meha (57:09.802) just being in the details. Being in the details is just pushing your team to think creatively, think expansively without losing sight of the vision. And I think that is something I wish I had known earlier because I made some mistakes along the way and now I'm ready to embrace it. Like it's okay to be in the details. Meghan Houle (57:22.866) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, what would you say, what were some of your biggest mistakes as a founder? Was it just trying to keep all that control? And I don't know what, yeah. Because I see that a lot with female founders. And again, people that I have worked with that have led these multi-million dollar brands, they bring in a CEO. It just doesn't work out. Because at some point, you do have to like. Meha (57:34.486) Hmm Meha (57:37.703) Yeah. Meha (57:44.31) Yeah. Meghan Houle (57:48.138) relinquish that control if you're really going to take on a team, but some people are just not ready for it. Some people are just not built for it. Or it's just about hiring those right people that can see the vision and not trying to change you because you are like what this brand is, you know, so mmm. Yeah. Meha (57:54.251) Yeah. Yeah. Meha (58:01.934) Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that, I think that was... So in the early days, because I'm a solo founder, the advice was always hire great, like hire leaders and they'll hire the team to execute. And that was horrible advice, to be honest. It's, you know, in the early days, you even as the founder should be executing, but B, you should be hiring other leaders that are executors and not just people managers. And that's not how you should be starting your companies. And so I think that was a big. Meghan Houle (58:11.32) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (58:14.806) Hmm Meghan Houle (58:19.136) Yeah. Meha (58:34.014) learning lesson. And then on the flip side, when you do hire your leaders, I think, you know, I think I'm almost the opposite where I'm like, Oh, yay, like I'm passing you the baton. I'm out, you do it, you can do it better than me. And that's not always the case. Because as a founder, you have, you have years of context, you have intuition that is undeniably just yours. And so you have to be in the room, you have to Meghan Houle (58:43.494) Mm hmm. Yeah. Meha (58:59.314) empower and be there as opposed to just thinking you're empowering by getting out of the weeds. And to be honest, I think that's a framing the entire industry needs a reality check on. I think that's something that, you know, it's only founders who've been in those positions really understand it. I think people, both team members as well as investors, I think they don't always realize the superpower and the secret sauce of founders is also to be in the details of some things. Yeah. Meghan Houle (59:06.613) Mm, yeah. Meghan Houle (59:26.906) Oh, heck yeah. Well, too, for you and just kind of considering your team, do you have a big team and will you be hiring in the future? Like, what does that future look like for the business? Like, what does your team look like now? Yeah, yeah. Meha (59:38.015) Yeah. Meha (59:41.714) Yeah, so we have, you know, we're kind of distributed across the HQ team as well as experts that are freelancers and agencies. So we have quite a few people working at Silk and Sonder. That said, I think Meghan Houle (59:48.791) Mm-hmm. Meha (59:58.902) You know, I think of teams as kind of like sports teams, right? So how do we play the strengths of our individuals? What are their roles and where can they flex outside of their role? Because that's a strength that they have. I think we need to be a little bit more fluid in not boxing people in the early days because everyone is somewhat of a Swiss army knife. In terms of hiring plan, I think it really depends on which new initiatives become things that need more hands. I think, you know, I don't think it's right to hire for roles that don't yet exist. It's better to kind of stretch people's roles and then identify the resource gap and then add it because otherwise you are managing a role that you don't even know what they're supposed to be doing. But yeah, I think, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Meghan Houle (01:00:28.398) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (01:00:49.002) Right? You're like, try this out and not setting people off for success too. Right? Yeah. Meha (01:00:54.59) So we have, you know, we have some exciting opportunities next year, but right now we're really focused on just hiring people that are strong, disciplined executors, uh, data-driven, but also creative. I always joke at Silken Sonder, you've got to be part engineer, part creative director, you know, part growth hacker. Um, and so I think hiring generalists who gravitate towards, um, executing in a particular domain is, is critical. Meghan Houle (01:01:19.306) Yeah, another recruiter in me. I'm like, what's your hiring plan? But also two people reaching out and maybe, I'm sure we're gonna get lots of things from this episode, but people connecting with you through the podcast, through LinkedIn and Instagram, and you just never know where organic talent can show up and connections and all of that. And I think it's really cool to have platforms like this through the podcast too, to showcase you as like a real human and boss and, Meha (01:01:25.887) Yeah. Meha (01:01:31.711) Absolutely. Meha (01:01:37.348) Totally. Meha (01:01:47.219) Yeah. Meghan Houle (01:01:48.726) people work for people. I feel like at the end of the day, no matter how many stars you can have in your eyes about all these great brands in there, and we won't go into them, you know, if like the ones that seem great, but just like art on the inside, to be in a group where you feel like you have a purpose and working around people that sure can be direct, like we're not just gonna show up to work and get hugs and stickers and butterflies, like that's not the real world, but to be seen and to be heard and to collaborate. Meha (01:01:54.229) Yeah. Meha (01:02:01.099) Yeah. Meha (01:02:10.284) Yeah. Meha (01:02:14.655) Yep. Meghan Houle (01:02:16.082) and to be able to receive direct feedback and grow. I mean, that's what it's all about. So I'm excited for your future. And what would you say is the vision for Silk and Saunders as you come into 2024 and how do you hope it will impact the lives of all of its users like heading into the new year? Yeah. Meha (01:02:19.446) Yeah. Meha (01:02:34.186) Yeah, yeah. I mean, I always say Silken Saunders culture is a human first culture. That's why we like when people are themselves, whether you're a customer, a vendor, a agency partner or a team member. And so in 2024, I think what I would like to see and be able to accelerate the impact is, 95% of customers see an improvement to their mental and emotional health within weeks of using the program. 89% achieve their goals within their first three months. And so I think knowing those stats and knowing how transformative Silken Saunders in its current form can be, one of the things that I wanna work on is how do we accelerate that impact? How do we help the people that are not able to achieve those goals within their first couple of months? How can we personalize their journeys from day one? How can we make it easier to gift Silken Saunders? How can we help spread the... the word, like the movement that we're creating, we have so many stats that are indicative of the success that this program offers and the results that we can drive. But we're not just creating a product, we're creating a movement. And so I really love to see that, you know, referral flywheel effect take place. I want people to be having Saunders Sunday parties, you know, where they're dealing with their Sunday scaries, but as a group with their girlfriends. Meghan Houle (01:03:31.779) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (01:03:53.378) Yeah. Meha (01:03:58.694) I want Silk and Saunders to be this new way of being. And it's really on our members to help us make that happen and our team to help accelerate the impact sooner so that people can be out there sharing their stories and their transformations and making journaling not sound like a chore because it is such an unlock to becoming the most healthy version of you. And what an awesome. experience to be able to do that with pen to paper and a program like ours. Meghan Houle (01:04:29.19) Yeah, and even for the generous donation gifts that you've given for some of my live events, even for that one month, I can't tell you how many messages I've gotten. And I think we need to like create like a pivot with purpose, like maybe like 2024 challenge with Silken Sonder. I don't know, there's something here. We're gonna like get a group going. And for all of, you know, all the individuals listening in Boston, I don't know, maybe we need like a Sunday group, too. So yes. Meha (01:04:35.744) Yeah. Meha (01:04:44.326) Yes, I'd love that. Let's do it. Yes. Meha (01:04:55.474) Yes, and in real life, yeah, let's do it. Do it. Yeah, I'll show up. I'll show up to Boston. I wanna do a Sonder, I wanna do a Silk and Sonder road show next year too, so maybe Boston will be one of my cities. Meghan Houle (01:04:58.498) There's gonna be some initiatives taken here. I'm holding myself accountable. And then I have to show up for you. You know where to find me. Like Megan, how are those girls? No, come. Yeah. Heck yeah. Yeah, and also too continuing on as we threw a huge event in September with Pivotal Purpose Live, I think continuing on these community building conversations where we're bringing like-minded people in rooms, sharing continuing like stories and wisdom and the beauty of connection and accessibility and you know, for these individuals where someone is like, oh my God, she would never wanna talk to me or I'm never gonna meet them. It's like, yes, we're all humans. We all wanna help. Meha (01:05:23.415) Yes. Meha (01:05:32.843) Yeah. Meha (01:05:40.435) Yes. Meghan Houle (01:05:41.942) We all have a mission and a purpose. And I feel like your Pivot with Purpose seems like you just nailed it, girl. So you go and there's so much more to do and you're just so smart and so amazing. So where are you most active? Where people can find you, engage with you. And then we will link all the Silk and Saunders things. And I'm gonna be very communicative in this community about signing up and like, let's do it everybody, Pivot with Purpose. So. Meha (01:05:49.582) Oh. Ha ha ha. Meha (01:06:01.772) Yeah. Meha (01:06:08.915) Yes, let's do it. Meghan Houle (01:06:11.146) Where can we all find you and engage with you the most? Yes. Meha (01:06:13.938) Yeah, great question. So the most obviously through Sondra Club, I am in there every day, all day. So if you're a member, you'll definitely have an opportunity to interact. And the more you post, the more you leave reviews, the more likely we're able to do user interviews with you. And I conduct a lot of those. Beyond that, definitely LinkedIn and Instagram would be my go-to. So... Meghan Houle (01:06:18.28) Mm-hmm. Meghan Houle (01:06:34.675) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Meha (01:06:36.058) LinkedIn, you can find me there. I highly recommend when you add me or could choose to connect with me put pivot with purpose As well as yes, I'm you know, it's I'm you know I actually read those and if your note doesn't say anything then it might delay the approvals But some you know with where you heard about me and then if you're a member definitely call that out Those definitely get approved right away and then Instagram same thing DM me say you heard about me through or you heard this episode Meghan Houle (01:06:43.739) Send her a note everybody. Yes. Yes Meghan Houle (01:06:51.272) Yeah. Meghan Houle (01:06:58.325) I love it. Yeah. Meghan Houle (01:07:02.98) Mm-hmm. Meha (01:07:04.086) and I usually am pretty active and responding as of now because I love Instagram and LinkedIn. Email, I'm a little, email gets a little. There's so much of it. Meghan Houle (01:07:07.886) Yeah. I know me too. Yeah. Oh, there's just too much of it. I know. I feel I feel like offline I have to tell you about like my big tech goals for next year. But I can't spill the beans yet. But no, there's definitely a more meaningful way that we can all continue to connect especially just networking community career things you will just been struggling with so much and I think the email piece of it of like Meha (01:07:21.053) Oh yes. Meha (01:07:28.746) Absolutely. Meghan Houle (01:07:34.666) especially for jobs and applications. We don't even get it. But we're just so inundated. So I do love the social element. I love the RC were active on LinkedIn and Insta. And yeah, we'll get people signed up and excited for the new year. And I'm holding myself accountable. So thank you so much for all of this beautiful wisdom and information and where you know, we can find so consider and why and the science behind it. And it's just so Meha (01:07:38.736) Yeah. Meha (01:07:47.126) Let's do it! Yes! Meghan Houle (01:08:04.542) Amazing to hear that there's those proven results where people really have changed their mental health just by showing up for yourself every day Journaling writing things down having community. It's so beautiful. So I can't wait to see you in Boston and get ready and Get ready for the inundations of all the messages, but thank you so much. You're amazing and then maybe see you in Napa, too So yes Meha (01:08:08.502) Yeah, just by showing up, yeah. Meha (01:08:17.662) Yes, let's do it! Meha (01:08:25.498) Oh, yes. Let's do a little Napa squad. I take my silicon sonder to Napa and I bust it out. And one time someone said he was serving us the wine and he he's like, oh, I know that company. Like my girlfriend loves that company. I was like, oh, really? I'm the founder. Yeah. And she got on the phone and she told me how it changed her life. And it was just such a special moment. So yes, all down for Napa down for Boston. If you're in San Francisco, let me know. Otherwise, we will see you virtually. We'll do these. Meghan Houle (01:08:33.579) Yeah. Meghan Houle (01:08:39.954) Oh, you're like, that's me. Ha ha ha. Yes, girl. Oh. OK. Meghan Houle (01:08:51.242) Yeah, yeah. We'll see you soon. Meha (01:08:55.094) These accountability squad parties, love it. All right, thank you. Bye, Megan. Meghan Houle (01:08:57.551) Thank you so much. All right. Thank you.